We're Buying from a Breeder

**Crazy-Cat-Lover** · 01-24-2006, 02:29 AM

We have made our final decision...

Ugh, I know, I should be adopting from a shelter. We have been searching the shelters for a Labrador Retriever for quite sometime with no luck. It seems that almost all the dogs are lab crosses. Our landlords love big dogs, and have agreed to let us have a Lab. We are going to get a chocolate, show bred lab. Not to put in shows - just the stockier type. I know that they are more calm than the field bred labs.

Now my question is, how in the heck do I go about finding a reputable breeder? I have no clue what to look for/ask? I will be getting a registered/registerable lab puppy - does this always mean it came from a reputable breeder? It would be registered with the CKC (Canadian Kennel Club, not the Continental Kennel Club). I know there are people on here with labs, not neccesarily registered ones, but they are still labs. When does a good breeder let their pups leave? 12 weeks?

Why dont I consider a mix? I feel, that I cannot control a dominant breed and shelters dont really know what the dog is crossed with, they make an assumption. Most breeds are recommended for people with older children - not my case. Dont get me wrong - I adore all dogs. Golden Retrievers also fit my lifestyle, but DH doesnt like longhaired dogs (dont ask why, he doesnt have an answer). One part of me feels like a pile of crap not saving a dog from death, but the other part so badly wants to buy from a reputable breeder.

Now, there arent many Lab breeders in BC, but I have found all their websites. If you would like to take a look I can post them.

**Kfamr** · 01-24-2006, 03:56 AM

Is there any reason you MUST have a pure bred dog - Breeding, showing, etc?

Finding the perfect dog isn't going to happen in a few weeks, especially if you decide to go with a breeder. Keep looking in the shelters. Contact some rescues.

Found this cutie within seconds of looking for shelters/rescues in BC.
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=5668695

**cloverfdx** · 01-24-2006, 05:24 AM

http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?act...=Dog&preview=1

http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?act...=Dog&preview=1

I guess you have already checked the above ^?. I am still searching for you

. It would be a shame to knock back a dog because it is a X breed

.

**Crazy-Cat-Lover** · 01-24-2006, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by cloverfdx

http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?act...=Dog&preview=1

http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?act...=Dog&preview=1

I guess you have already checked the above ^?. I am still searching for you

. It would be a shame to knock back a dog because it is a X breed

.

I have looked at all the dogs in every single shelter in BC. I dont feel that I should be looked down upon because I feel a purebred (I dont care about papers) is the best choice for me. I have a 2 year old daughter and not EVERY dog is going to be good with kids. Yes, adult dogs dont have behaviour surprises, but I have all the time in the world for a puppy. If it happens that a lab will come into the shelter that doesnt say "not good with small children" or doesnt say "must have a large fenced yard" or "needs experienced owner" or "not good with cats" I will be happy to have a look.

This place use to be so warm and inviting, now I feel that no matter what I post - I always get negative feedback. I never, ever get "Im so happy for you". It is sad. Really sad.

Why doesnt anyone ever say anything to people that have been here longer than me that are getting a purebred dog? Why am I any different? I am a mature woman and feel my choice is the best for my family. I am NOT buying a purebred because I want to be cool, or show, or breed - but because I want a dog that exibits the traits of a properly bred lab.

**Crazy-Cat-Lover** · 01-24-2006, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Kfamr

Is there any reason you MUST have a pure bred dog - Breeding, showing, etc?

Finding the perfect dog isn't going to happen in a few weeks, especially if you decide to go with a breeder. Keep looking in the shelters. Contact some rescues.

Found this cutie within seconds of looking for shelters/rescues in BC.
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=5668695

Gee, I guess I should have kept my mouth shut. I have many reasons why I want a dog from a breeder.

1.) My local SPCA most likely WONT adopt a dog to me. I dont have a yard and I have a 2 year old daughter, according to the SPCA, most of their dogs wont tolerate small children. I did my practicum there, so I know how their adoption process works. I live in an apartment and the location doesnt help - the SPCA probably wouldnt adopt to me just because of that. They are more strict than any other shelter I have seen. Other rescues can be extremely strict, making adopting a dog harder than it seems.

2.) The avoidance of backyard breeders.

3.) My DH and I both want a Lab, we feel this is the best choice for our daughter. We already had a terrible experience with a Rottweiler, it scares the crap out of me - my daughter could be dead because I chose the wrong breed of dog for our lifestyle.

4.) Like I said, I feel that I CANNOT handle a dominant dog or aggressive dog.

5.) We are still keeping our eyes peeled at the shelters, but most labs are adopted VERY quickly.

There are people with purebred dogs, there are people with mixed breed dogs. Does it make me a bad person for wanting a purebred? I think not.

And it hasnt been a few weeks, it has been over 5 months that we have been looking.

**Kfamr** · 01-24-2006, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Crazy-Cat-Lover

Gee, I guess I should have kept my mouth shut. I have many reasons why I want a dog from a breeder.

1.) My local SPCA most likely WONT adopt a dog to me. I dont have a yard and I have a 2 year old daughter, according to the SPCA, most of their dogs wont tolerate small children. I did my practicum there, so I know how their adoption process works. I live in an apartment and the location doesnt help - the SPCA probably wouldnt adopt to me just because of that. They are more strict than any other shelter I have seen. Other rescues can be extremely strict, making adopting a dog harder than it seems.

2.) The avoidance of backyard breeders.

3.) My DH and I both want a Lab, we feel this is the best choice for our daughter. We already had a terrible experience with a Rottweiler, it scares the crap out of me - my daughter could be dead because I chose the wrong breed of dog for our lifestyle.

4.) Like I said, I feel that I CANNOT handle a dominant dog or aggressive dog.

5.) We are still keeping our eyes peeled at the shelters, but most labs are adopted VERY quickly.

There are people with purebred dogs, there are people with mixed breed dogs. Does it make me a bad person for wanting a purebred? I think not.

And it hasnt been a few weeks, it has been over 5 months that we have been looking.

To set it straight, I NEVER said anything against you buying from a breeder. NEVER. If you don't want opinions then quite possibly a message board isn't the place for you. People have the right to express their opinions anywhere, anytime.

I didn't mean literally a few weeks. It took us years to find Nala, the "perfect" puppy for our family. Not all dogs from shelters have problems with children or dominance/aggression issues. Nala is a Lab Mix shelter puppy, and she is one of the sweetest dogs I know and is very careful around children and has never lived with a child. But, when we have visiting children she is always making sure she doesn't run into them or knock them over.

You didn't ask for opinions but, again, I think I have the right to express them. I am very passionate about animals.

I may be reading it wrong but, it seems you are interested in getting a puppy rather than an adult dog. I think if you're worried about aggression/dominance/etc and you don't have a backyard - getting and adult would be the best route. Therefor you know what you're getting into with the dog and more than likely an adult dog would be happy without a fenced in yard, whereas I think a large breed puppy NEEDS a backyard. Generally rescues, shelters, etc have very good reasons for not adopting out a dog to a family without a yard. IMO, I think large breed breeders should consider that as well.

Again, this is just my opinion and I know you haven't asked for it. None of it was meant to be offensive but since you got a bit impetuous about my first post, please take a moment if you do the same with this one.

And to sweet little buttercup132, I DID read the whole post, thankyouverymuch.

**Vela** · 01-24-2006, 02:58 PM

I do agree with Kay and K9soul that the apartment situation with a young child and a puppy could cause some issues and that it really may be better off to have an older more settled down dog to start with but if you really have your mind set on a puppy then make sure you research really well, like it looks like you are doing. There will be issue and problems that arise from having a puppy that may not when getting an older dog but you are the bset one to gauge how you can handle those.

As to cataholic, there is a HUGE difference between irresponsible BYB breeders and responsible breeders who do health testing, conformation testing, and tempermanet testing on their dogs before breeding. I disagree with your opinion that all breeding should stop, if that was the case then only the irresponsible breeders would be left and sickly and poor representations of each breed are all that would exist. What needs to stop is indicriminant breeding of designer dogs and pets and the negligence of not spaying and nuetering. I will gladly support ANY responsible and ethical breeder who takes the time and money to do it right because I LOVE certain breds of dogs and thier characteristics and they would be bred out and disappear if the good breeders weren't supported. This is my opinion though, and thankfully we are allowed a difference of opinions=) Responsible breeders cannot be held accountable for all of those who aren't..they can only do their best to make sure THEIR dogs are as healthy and of sound mind and body as possible. They are not the cause of the overpopulation problem, most produce very few puppies, it's the mills and stupid people of the world that won't fix their pets that cause the problem, blame should be placed duly where it belongs. I do support rescues and those who do it and no kill shelters, I donate to several, but I also think GOOD breeders are necessary as well.

**Pam** · 01-24-2006, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Vela

As to cataholic, there is a HUGE difference between irresponsible BYB breeders and responsible breeders who do health testing, conformation testing, and tempermanet testing on their dogs before breeding. I disagree with your opinion that all breeding should stop, if that was the case then only the irresponsible breeders would be left and sickly and poor representations of each breed are all that would exist.

Amen!! Thank you for that!!! I was going to say the same thing only you have done it so much more eloquently.

My daughter had a two year old with a very large puppy and, yes it involves monitoring puppy and child carefully but if you are up to the task I say go for it! I think having any dog without a fenced yard will present the most problems with you and your young child. During the housetraining process you will be going out many, many times a day with the pup and won't be able to leave the two year old inside alone in the apartment, so that will mean a trip outside for the two of you each time the pup needs to go potty. In that regard I think an adult, already trained dog, might be the best idea. Whatever you decide, please do let us know and don't be turned off by a few. We all love dogs here but just look at things a little differently at times.

**Cataholic** · 01-25-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Vela

As to cataholic, there is a HUGE difference between irresponsible BYB breeders and responsible breeders who do health testing, conformation testing, and tempermanet testing on their dogs before breeding. I disagree with your opinion that all breeding should stop, if that was the case then only the irresponsible breeders would be left and sickly and poor representations of each breed are all that would exist. What needs to stop is indicriminant breeding of designer dogs and pets and the negligence of not spaying and nuetering. I will gladly support ANY responsible and ethical breeder who takes the time and money to do it right because I LOVE certain breds of dogs and thier characteristics and they would be bred out and disappear if the good breeders weren't supported. This is my opinion though, and thankfully we are allowed a difference of opinions=) Responsible breeders cannot be held accountable for all of those who aren't..they can only do their best to make sure THEIR dogs are as healthy and of sound mind and body as possible. They are not the cause of the overpopulation problem, most produce very few puppies, it's the mills and stupid people of the world that won't fix their pets that cause the problem, blame should be placed duly where it belongs. I do support rescues and those who do it and no kill shelters, I donate to several, but I also think GOOD breeders are necessary as well.

Vela, (and Pam, if I remember correctly),
I think ALL breeding should stop. All. My bone of contention is that there are some people (even on this board

) that get some special pass when it comes to breeding, and I have never quite understood it. Sure there are BYB that are just unspeakable, and then, there are some BYB that make sure their puppies go to good loving homes. It is still the same, to me. There are too many pets- whether they come from Mr. X or Mrs. Y. The term 'responsible' that we banter about is so completely subjective. Just because so and so says, "oh, I do all sorts of tests, blah, blah, I don't do it for money, blah, blah" doesn't do anything about decreasing the pet population. These people that breed, without a recongnizable kennel name, or some strong affiliation with show (or agility, field, or whatever the goal they are seeking might be), are BYBs. The AKC doesn't spend much time (if any, as they are regulatory in nature) weeding out, admonishing, halting, ceasing, etc., when it comes to registration, the very thing that people cry out, "I am not BYB, I am breeding dogs/cats registered with the AKC"! That
is a tragedy. Yes, I do think they **should** do something.

I don't think we need anymore animals-pure, mixed-period, born into this world. When we start to lose some of this "gotta have a purebred" mentality, we can really get back to humanity- saving those that are already here, through no fault of their own.

I think, for me, it comes down to realizing that while I can't affect the world at large with my personal decision (in this case to adopt from a shelter, rather than go to a breeder), I can work towards eliminating the pet overpopulation. It is about supply and demand. If people would stop buying from BYB, pet stores, eventually- shoot, maybe not in my lifetime- it will come down to what you claim-only the responsible breeders are left to breed-
It truly saddens my heart to know that people really interested in a PET (as many, many of us are), would overlook adoption for, IMO, no real reason.

Johanna

PS- don't pick on my mispellings...I think I got the difference between two, too, and to all ironed out.

PSS- and, don't claim anything is a joke! That isn't allowed anymore....you must be 100% PC at all times less your fragile ego is shattered.

PSS- I don't really mean any of this towards you! Truly. No joke.

**ParNone** · 01-24-2006, 03:19 PM

I have to admit I've never understood going after the responsible to fix problems created by the irresponsible. It's this same type of reasoning that's moved us towards banning breeds.

That said, with your situation, apartment, no yard/fence and a 2 year old, I think it's going to be extremely hard to get a responsible breeder to sell you one of their puppies, especially an active breed like Labs. I think you'd have to have proven experience with dogs and a rock solid plan to be able to talk your way into a puppy from a responsible breeder.

With Oz, I had to prove I had a fence and yard, before the breeder would even consider giving me one of her pups. I also went over with her how I was going to handle integrating him into the pack, since I was upfront with her about Maddie and Murph's dog aggression.

Responsible breeders are going to be discerning about who gets their dog. If they're not, major red flag that they're not responsible breeders.

I have to agree with K9soul, that you shouldn't rule out an adult Lab too.

Par...

**buttercup132** · 01-24-2006, 03:26 PM

Generally rescues, shelters, etc have very good reasons for not adopting out a dog to a family without a yard

I was kinda thinking that. Shelters aren't doing it to be mean they want the animals to be adopted out but they don't want them to end up back on the streets or have to save them from being neglected again. They do have there reasons and they are for the better of the animal. I think you should ask them what type of dog would be best for you. Oh and if Hubby dosen't like long haired dogs you can get them shaved....

And to sweet little buttercup132

You really think I'm sweet or were you just exagerating?

**Crazy-Cat-Lover** · 01-24-2006, 05:52 AM

Oh and by the way, I never asked for anyones opinions on my decision. I asked for information on finding a reputable breeder...

**Roxyluvsme13** · 01-24-2006, 07:42 AM

Hmm...Well, I think a good reputable breeder would feed a good quality dog food, the puppies will have been to the vet quite a few times, and...you should be allowed to see the parents. Oh, and the place should be REALLY clean. Hope that helps

**buttercup132** · 01-24-2006, 07:49 AM

I see exactly where your coming from . Plus shelters don't know that they are purebred like the one here http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?ac...l=Dog&preview=1
The very last one says Labrador Retriver! It's no way purebred look at that tail for one! Theres nothing wrong from buying from a breeder if they are good. Oh and Kay she already stated in her first post she wants a show breed lab because she likes the stockier type and they are less hyper then feild bred Labs(you might want to read the whole post!) As for looking for a breeder I will try and find you one I own TONS of the dog Canada magazines they ones they come out with that are packed with info and breeders.

**Karen** · 01-24-2006, 08:01 AM

Warning signs of a bad breeder:

A bad breeder won't let you meet the parents

A bad breeder won't let you see where the puppies live and play

A bad breeder won't ask for a spay/neuter contract signed as you do not plan on showing the dog

A bad breeder won't ask you to return the pup to them if something happens and you can no longer care for it

A bad breeder won't ask you questions about your time, ability to care for the dog, etc. A good breeder may ask so many questions you'll feel uncomfortable.

A bad breeder won't ask you about previous dog experience, patience, experience training, etc.

A bad breeder won't offer to show you that the parents are certified for hips, eyes, etc. A good breeder wouldn't think twice about it.

I congratulate you for being open to a shelter dog if one comes available that doesn't say it's unsuitable for a home with a child. Keep looking everywhere, and the right pup - from wherever it comes - will find you, and you, it.

Just because a dog is purebred doesn't guarantee its temperament, of course. Do ask to meet the parents, at least the mom should be available. Do "test" the pup for shyness or any other potential problems.

No one here thinks you are a bad person for looking for a responsible breeder, just keep in mind it may take quite a while to find one with pups to sell you, and that it will be expensive.

And remember, Labs are puppies for a LONG time. Your daughter will have to learn that anything left on the floor will be destroyed by puppy teeth - is she prepared for that?