Terri Schiavo - so sad :(

[caseysmom]

I watched a program on a & e about this. It seemed pretty unbiased, the parents gave every media outlet they could think of those clips of her...I wonder how that would maker her feel?

for that one video of her following the balloon there were hours and hours and hours of tape with nothing...that was a coincidental eye movement...also those are 5 year old tapes, she apparantly looks much worse but her husband never submitted any tapes of her looking blankly for hours and looking how she looks now...the parents should be ashamed of themselves.

[PJ's Mom]

Catland, you summed up my feeling about this very nicely. I agree with you 100%.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by GraciesMommy
I agree, Pam...his behavior in all this is just too weird...why is he so hell bent in going against the parents wishes..my gosh, give the poor people something!

I agree with you both too.

What would it hurt to let his parents bury her where they could at least put a flower on her grave now and then. He wants to put her in PA while they all live in FL.

Some families do feel really strongly about creamation. I was so glad I had talked to my father and knew for sure that was what he wanted when the time came. I was able to help the others in the family accept that was his wish. We had never had any one in our family creamated before. I'm thinking that's what I want too. God can put me back together from ashes just as well as from dust on resurrection day.

That may be another thing to put in writing along with your living wills. If you have any preference to being cremated over buried. It sure helps the family in a difficult time, I can promise you that.

[Pam]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
There is nothing about a Catholic burial that includes viewing or open casket.

I am not a Catholic but my Catholic co-workers were involved in a very heated conversation about this when I arrived at work this morning. I was told that it is against Catholic doctrine to be cremated. If this is true, then her religious rights are being violated. But then again everything about this woman has been violated!


These parents have one of the best pr teams going.

Good Lord Sarah. How heartless can you be? I know you will be glad to see me disappear after this whole mess is over.

Why an autopsy??
Simple answer; Why not? Of course if there is something to hide....

[sirrahbed]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
There is nothing about a Catholic burial that includes viewing or open casket. These parents have one of the best pr teams going. They are the ones who have suggested he may have had something to do with her death. Odd they should bring that up now instead of when he was doing fund raisers in order to take her to California to try an experimental treatment for Terri. When he went to nursing school in order to give her better treatment.

At the time her parents accepted him seeing other women....now he is an adulterer. Why an autopsy?? The purpose of an autopsy is to determine cause of death. Why would they want their daughter's body poked and prodded more????

And really....if someone had fought you publically and viciously... including branding you a murderer and adulterer, cost you all your savings in legal fees, and engaged in actions that result in death threats against you and your children....for 12 years (they were in agreement the first three years until the father demanded money)....would you say....here is my wife's body...please make one more public spectacle of her!

Sara??? Do we <gasp> agree on something?? Can it be??

I alternate between feeling sad for everyone, wanting to smash the TV when I hear what "Terri said or did" with a liquid cerebrum, wonder if hubby has any grounds for slander with all the things said about him, now hear mom "can't bear" to see her daughter....stop a moment to be thankful this will NEVER be my situation (unless my old Living Will becomes the target of lawsuits)....wonder why family did not work this hard to remove the poor woman if she ever was indeed in such physical danger from hubby ....

do we really agree?? Mark your calendar, please!

I DO have questions about the RC burial since *I* made all arrangments for the funeral of my born and excommunicated RC when married to my dad without swearing to make my brother and I RC mother 3 years ago (I also initiated her DNR, cessation of forced feedings and suppose I sat by and watched her be "murdered"??) After the funeral, my dad was riddled with some angry mail from her remaining siblings that she did not receive a "proper" burial. Truthfully, I never looked it up and tried to figure out what I did wrong on THAT issue - everyone there was very happy with her burial.

Does anyone know the specific problems about the RC burial?? Is it simply the cremation? Is this unscriptural?? I really do not know...

PS And...who and what ARE those men in the brown robes?? Priests? Monks?? They are called "Brother"? What are they??

[Edwina's Secretary]

Pam...first and foremost let me say.... I do not confuse a person's value with a person's beliefs. I always miss you when I don't see you around....even though we disagree on some things....

I think the parents are selfish. I believe they are more interested in what they want...which is not to let go of the body of their daughter.

The Catholic Church is opposed to cremation...although it occurs frequently. My father, who is a practicing Catholic, has requested it. But your statement...to which I replied...was about visitation...open casket...

If I....or anyone for whom I am responsible...dies of natural causes...please...no autopsy. Remove the organs so others may live...and then...from dust you come to dust you shall return.

IF they truely believed the husband had engaged in foul play...why wait til now to bring it up? Wouldn't it have been easier to prove much earlier in the process?

And....Congressperson DeLay...of the infamous memo about making political hay of this... was faced with a similar dilemma with his father some years ago. He, his mother and family...chose to let his father die.

[sirrahbed]

I *am* a Christian and considered a "conservative" one at that but I have nothing that I am aware of in common with those folks who have been gathering on the lawn of the Hospice

I hate to be associated with that sort of display. Where do they come from???

[Pam]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary


And....Congressperson DeLay...of the infamous memo about making political hay of this... was faced with a similar dilemma with his father some years ago. He, his mother and family...chose to let his father die.

Comparing apples and oranges. His dad was on a respirator. Terri was not being kept alive by machines. She needed only food and water just as all of us do. My co-workers were pointing out today that for her to survive 11 days without water is testament to something. Maybe a strong will to live? Who knows.

My concern over all of this mess has been that, without a Living Well, this should not have be allowed. We should always be erring on the side of life. I visit a convalescent center each week. Many of the people there are living lives that most of us would never want to live. What is next? Ending the life of an Alzheimer patient because their quality of life is not good? It is all too sad.

[Edwina's Secretary]

To sirrahbed.... I had noticed earlier that you and I agreed on this....I assumed it to be due to the full moon....

Roman Catholic practices can vary....although they are not suppose to....based on the country, the diocese, the pastor.

I am loathe to bash the Catholic Church in public....it is like...I can say my sister is a jerk but I would bloody the nose of anyone else who did.

But there is flexibility. Death by suicide is a disqualifier for a church funeral...but if the person was not of right mind when they committed suicide (and who is) then it is okay. (How persmission to marry in the church was granted to my ex-brother-in-law after 17 years of marriage and a child and his current wife who had been married TWICE and had three children is still a bafflement to me.)

So proper can be...in the eyes of the beholder...and the pastor would not have let you do something that was not considered "proper."

and yes...they are monks....

[Pam]

Originally posted by sirrahbed
I *am* a Christian and considered a "conservative" one at that but I have nothing that I am aware of in common with those folks who have been gathering on the lawn of the Hospice

I hate to be associated with that sort of display. Where do they come from???

I agree with you Deb. Even Terri's brother said nothing can be gained by being disobedient and getting arrested. They were urged to go home and pray for the family. I hope they did.

[caseysmom]

Terry married her husband and had not filed any type of divorce or separation papers...she made him her next of kin..that was her choice....we had a dnr order on my father who had alzheimers...he was more coherent that the woman I see on TV...does that make my mother a murderer?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Mrs. Delay, as the next of kin and in the absence of a living will, was able to make the decision WITHOUT the interference of the federal government.

Mr. Schiavo, as the next of kin and in the absence of a living will, is not able to make the decision WITHOUT the interference of the federal government.

My heart aches for all of them involved. As for those who have inserted themselves into the situation....

[Pam]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
Mrs. Delay, as the next of kin and in the absence of a living will, was able to make the decision WITHOUT the interference of the federal government.

Mr. Schiavo, as the next of kin and in the absence of a living will, is not able to make the decision WITHOUT the interference of the federal government.

My heart aches for all of them involved. As for those who have inserted themselves into the situation....

Plugs are pulled every day; plugs that are connected to artificial means of life support. There is nothing artificial about a feeding tube.

Regarding DNR orders that is something else again. Should an Alzheimer patient, or anyone else in a compromised situation, not wish to "come back" that should be honored if that is what the patient wishes. I spoke with a nurse at the center that I visit each week and she said if they should find a patient on the floor who has suffered an apparent heart attack they are compelled to administer CPR, often breaking bones in the rib cage while doing so in those with very brittle bones. The whole situation couldn't be sadder. We have reached a level of ability to keep people alive, that years ago would have most certainly died, and thus these dilemmas.

[Samantha Puppy]

Aside from a truly horrible thing happening to this woman, the other thing that makes me said is that the courts had to get involved in the fate of this woman. I don't want some judge deciding whether I live or die, and how.

That said, I can see both sides. I feel it is disgusting that this woman is being dehydrated to death. I don't care if she can feel pain or not (and if she can't, what's with the morphine drip?). Allowing another human being to dehydrate to death is horrendous. If an inmate on death row were found dehydrated to death, there would be a massive investigation and several heads rolling of those "in charge". This woman has committed no crime. Heck, if someone went to a Humane Society and found dogs and cats dehydrated to death, you can't tell me an investigation would be launched there as well. I just cannot grasp why letting Terri dehydrate to death is okay. It isn't. Plain and simple.

Secondly, I get her husband is her legal guardian. But I also feel for the parents. I am not yet a mother, but if my son or daughter were incapacitated and their spouse was making decisions I felt were wrong, I would be upset too! Depending on what those decisions were, I may also fight it in court (depends on the situation). It must be so hard looking at your daughter like that, knowing that YOU gave her life, and now it's up to someone else whether or not it continues. I feel for her parents on that level. Did they take the right course of action? I don't know. I'm not them. I don't think any of us will ever know exactly how they feel, why they feel the way they do, and why they did what they did because we're only getting our information from the media. We're not living it first hand.

Lastly, I find that her husband is a scumbag ONLY on the fact that he has a longtime girlfriend and has children with her. To me, the whole "In sickness and in health, 'Til death do us part" thing means until DEATH do us part. I *can* say that (God forbid), if anything like this were to happen to my husband, I would remain loyal to him until death parted us. Not until I decided it was long enough, I needed to move on and have children by some other person while my husband lay in a hospital somewhere. Absolutely not. So for that reason alone, I find him repulsive.

If in her health, Terri observed Roman Catholic traditions and religion was important to her, she should receive a traditional Roman Catholic burial. I don't know Michael Schiavo's real reasons for opposing that, but it sounds like spite. He should not ignore her faith.

Edited to change "starve" to "dehydrate" for proper medical term usage reasons.

[Luvin Labs]

IF they truely believed the husband had engaged in foul play...why wait til now to bring it up? Wouldn't it have been easier to prove much earlier in the process?

They did, back in 2002.

That said, I can see both sides. I feel it is disgusting that this woman is being starved to death. I don't care if she can feel pain or not (and if she can't, what's with the morphine drip?). Allowing another human being to starve to death is horrendous. If an inmate on death row were found starved to death, there would be a massive investigation and several heads rolling of those "in charge". This woman has committed no crime. Heck, if someone went to a Humane Society and found dogs and cats starved to death, you can't tell me an investigation would be launched there as well. I just cannot grasp why letting Terri starve to death is okay. It isn't. Plain and simple.

Because Terri never wanted to 'live' like this. This is all about following Terri's wishes.

To me, the whole "In sickness and in health, 'Til death do us part" thing means until DEATH do us part. I *can* say that (God forbid), if anything like this were to happen to my husband, I would remain loyal to him until death parted us. Not until I decided it was long enough, I needed to move on and have children by some other person while my husband lay in a hospital somewhere. Absolutely not. So for that reason alone, I find him repulsive.

After trying to help her from 1990 to 1998, and finding out that nothing could be done to help her recover as most of her brain was GONE, he has decided to fulfill her wishes of not wanting to 'live' like this. To me, she died years ago. He is still married to her because he KNOWS that her parents will not follow through with her wishes, so he is taking care of HIS WIFE. As said in the news, he's there quite often at the hospital/hospice with her and making sure she is taken care of. I see him following through with his vows explicitly.