Do you approve?

[micki76]

Originally posted by WolfChan
"An' ye harm none, do what ye will"

...Thought I'd throw out a quote from MY religion because I'm starting to get a bit uncomfortable with this thread.

Feel free to. That's what the USA is about after all.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by WolfChan

...Thought I'd throw out a quote from MY religion because I'm starting to get a bit uncomfortable with this thread.

A question???

why are you uncomfortable?

[BitsyNaceyDog]

Or maybe we read from two different Bibles?

My Bible says in Leviticus that it is abomination for a man to lie with another man. It is abomination for a man to lie with his sister. It is abomination for a man to lie with an animal, etc.

Romans 1:25-27:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

You have never met this person, never had a conversation with him ... how do you propose to know if he was "saved" or not? Did God tell you this? No one knows this information but God and this person ... I highly doubt you are privy to God's private ledger.

No, God didn't tell me that. Only God knows if he is saved, and your friend should know. I don't know and neither do you. What I do know is that if he were saved then God would give him the streingth to over come his desires towards men.

You have just exhibited the infamous, right-wing, fundamental Christian fallacy ... "I know it all about everyone all the time, and I have the right to tell everyone what they think and how they feel and why they do things. Hallelujah. Amen."

I never calmed to know it all. I don't know it all. If there is something I need to know then I go to God and my Bible, and I get the answer.

[micki76]

When did one of my inlaws join the forum?

The bible also says a lot of things that society doesn't "obey" anymore. I for one do not submit to my husband. I am allowed to due many things that according to the bible, women shouldn't do. Women are church leaders now. We can speak in church now.

Welcome to the 21st century.

[2kitties]

I'm pasting one of my posts in another thread.

Alright, if we want to get all biblical and bible thumping, then let's take of the gloves.

If we are going to go so far as to take what the bible says as literal, as you seem to want to do kblix, then let's go ahead and amend the Constitution based on it.

The US Constitutional Marriage Amendment.....
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)

B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines, in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)

C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)

D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)

E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)

F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe, and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law. (Gen. 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)

G. In lieu of marriage, if there are no acceptable men in your town, it is required that you get your dad drunk and have sex with him (even ifhe had previously offered you up as a sex toy to men young and old), tag-teaming with any sisters you may have. Of course, this rule applies only if you are female. (Gen 19:31-36)

[2kitties]

This is clearly inscribed on the Jefferson Memorial.

"I am certainly not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

[kevinrats]

WolfChan, a couple questions-
I have yet to hear from you a good argument for gay marriage. Because they love each other? That's like saying you should marry your pet if you love them, or maybe a car or something. Huh?

You keep talking about how overpopulated the world is. Do you have any evidence to back this up? The world's population can fit into Texas. Is there enough food in the world? There IS enough food in the world, but it's obviously not distributed well enough.

And then anyone who doesn't have kids should be rewarded? Why? Just because you hate kids? Most people love the joy of having kids! Obviously you don't. You've stated it with your many proabortion anti population posts.

And why do people always have to have an opinion that is the same as yours and that makes sense to you? You're right, not everyone has the same religion and I agree that it isn't a strong argument for everyone. But for a lot of people it is, because it says in almost every religion that gay marriage is wrong.

I think gay people are among the nicest on the planet, and they are wonderful people. I just don't think gay marriage should be legalized!

[kevinrats]

2kitties, you're not using a lot of those verses in the correct context, and you are leaving out a lot of the verse. You've done it several times.

[2kitties]

You're welcome to correct me Kevin, if you'd like, by being specific.

But I think you are missing the point entirely. My point is sattire to illustrate that the bible has been translated hundreds of times and is used intirely in interpretation. No two Christian denominations read the Bible identically. If they did, then there would be no need for different denominations. So to base laws of our "Free" nation upon a Book which nobody can agree on in the first place is a ludacris idea.

[2kitties]

Originally posted by kevinrats
Because they love each other? That's like saying you should marry your pet if you love them, or maybe a car or something. Huh?

Well, Kevin, I'll tell you this. If any person can find a dog or a car which a court of law finds legally capable of making decisions, and when that dog or car can make it through a civil marriage ceremony and sign the marriage license... then sure. marry them.

[kevinrats]

Okay 2kitties here you go: (out of NIV) I'll do these one at a time cuz their big.

Genesis 29:17-28
Genesis 29
17 Leah had weak [1] eyes, but Rachel was lovely in form, and beautiful. 18 Jacob was in love with Rachel and said, "I'll work for you seven years in return for your younger daughter Rachel."
19 Laban said, "It's better that I give her to you than to some other man. Stay here with me." 20 So Jacob served seven years to get Rachel, but they seemed like only a few days to him because of his love for her.
21 Then Jacob said to Laban, "Give me my wife. My time is completed, and I want to lie with her."
22 So Laban brought together all the people of the place and gave a feast. 23 But when evening came, he took his daughter Leah and gave her to Jacob, and Jacob lay with her. 24 And Laban gave his servant girl Zilpah to his daughter as her maidservant.
25 When morning came, there was Leah! So Jacob said to Laban, "What is this you have done to me? I served you for Rachel, didn't I? Why have you deceived me?"
26 Laban replied, "It is not our custom here to give the younger daughter in marriage before the older one. 27 Finish this daughter's bridal week; then we will give you the younger one also, in return for another seven years of work."
28 And Jacob did so. He finished the week with Leah, and then Laban gave him his daughter Rachel to be his wife.

I see where you are trying to come from, but Rachel's Dad tricked Jacob, because Jacob worked 7 years to marry Rachel, but Dad gave him Leah instead, so he had to work for awhile longer to marry Rachel. It was Dad that had an uh-oh. It doesn't permit polygamy.



2 Samuel 3:2-5
2 Samuel 3
2 Sons were born to David in Hebron:
His firstborn was Amnon the son of Ahinoam of Jezreel;
3 his second, Kileab the son of Abigail the widow of Nabal of Carmel;
the third, Absalom the son of Maacah daughter of Talmai king of Geshur;
4 the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith;
the fifth, Shephatiah the son of Abital;
5 and the sixth, Ithream the son of David's wife Eglah.
These were born to David in Hebron.

The next couple I'll post in a few seconds...

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Well, Kevin, I'll tell you this. If any person can find a dog or a car which a court of law finds legally capable of making decisions, and when that dog or car can make it through a civil marriage ceremony and sign the marriage license... then sure. marry them.

Exactly.

A dog or a car cannot say "I do." Although i'm sure a dog knows love i'm pretty sure a dog, or a car, do not know the true mean of a marriage. A dog can't speak for itself, therefore we'd never be able to know if the dog actually wanted to be in such a relationship. Besides that, a car has no emotional feelings.


There's far more things Bush should worry about, other than two people of the same sex in love, LIKE making sure food is availible for people don't starve like they do.



Now... what does Wolfchan's opinion on children have ANYTHING to do with this subject?

[Maresche]

All I will say is that it is a pity that closed minds don't come with closed mouths.

[2kitties]

Again, Kevin, in your arrogance, you completely miss the point.
You and I just interpreted teh same scripture in two completely different ways. THAT ITSELF is the point. In my mind, you're interpretation is entirely wrong.

You see, you can't base the laws of a FREE nation upon a book so open to interpretation. But keep posting until you are blue in the face--- please--- it just makes you look more arrogant.

[kevinrats]

2 Samuel 5
13 After he left Hebron, David took more concubines and wives in Jerusalem, and more sons and daughters were born to him.

This is where David slipped up. But then later, because of this, disaster struck his family, people were raped and murdered. So yes, he took concubines but there were serious consequences.

1 Kings 11
3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.

Ahh, yes. But in 1 Kings 11:4, his wives all went away and his heart was not right with the Lord because of it.


So far, you have been quoting overall themes in the Bible. But the Bible is really a story of many people, and many of who slipped up and sinned a lot. A few more in a sec...