Alaska funded Palin kids' travel

[Edwina's Secretary]

I started reading it because the OP brought up something that COULD have been pertinent to the ISSUES, but it quickly veered off course.

My apologies for intruding on your bingo game.

LH...I think I see the problem here. Men and Women communicate differently. And you seem to filter women's conversation through your very male/military paradigm. So rather than being insulted by your demeaning expression of how women talk...I'll suggest some reading for you to help you understand.

Deborah Tannen Phd is considered the pioneer in the study of the differences in communication styles between men and woman. She has written some excellent books on the subject. Available on Barnes and Noble as well as many other book sellers.

Another expert in the area is Anthony J. Ipsaro, Phd. He approaches the subject from the viewpoint of a white male. He uses Tannen's works and created a phd program in Men's Studies (as he says...Why only Women's Studies??) You can find some of his work on the internet.

I hired him a couple times for workplace training programs. What was interesting was men -- who thought they understood women because they have a mother, a wife, daughters, whatever -- were the most impacted by the program. I remember after the first session going out for drinks with a group and the choruses of "I never knew!" "Oh my gosh!" etc. etc.

So instead of calling us "hens" and "bingo playing old ladies" and other attempts at disparagement...maybe learn about how we communicate? Edit...I left out old biddies

[sparks19]

Is this a round dance or a square dance? Or do you just not read what you don't want to read?

Once again...I know what she is...a mean-spirited, not too educated or learned woman who has drunk for many, many years from the public trough she claims to disdain. In other words...a dull hypocrite.

I don't care what she wears....(for the third or fourth time...)

Do you teach dance lessons?

[sparks19]

Can you dance like this???

yeah right... maybe at night in my dreams I could dance like that lol.

I couldn't even wear the outfit and fake it lol.

LOL BTW... Obama can't dance like that either. I saw him try on Ellen then his wife came on and shamed him lol.

[Lady's Human]

ES, if you're going to put this in terms of men not knowing how women communicate, then why don't women learn to communicate with men (after all, you speak as if it's a disability, and in this society those who don't have the disability need to accomodate those who have it) rather than vice versa?

Funny, I have no trouble communicating with women on the job, or normally in any other interactions. Only HERE do I seem to have those problems. Notice I used a very, very specific reference for comparison. It's not a general reference at all.

It's not a communications issue, it's a couple of people who feel the need to disparage those who disagree with them, so they can continue to do their "superiority dance" blind to everything else around them.

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES, if you're going to put this in terms of men not knowing how women communicate, then why don't women learn to communicate with men (after all, you speak as if it's a disability, and in this society those who don't have the disability need to accomodate those who have it) rather than vice versa?

Funny, I have no trouble communicating with women on the job, or normally in any other interactions. Only HERE do I seem to have those problems. Notice I used a very, very specific reference for comparison. It's not a general reference at all.

It's not a communications issue, it's a couple of people who feel the need to disparage those who disagree with them, so they can continue to do their "superiority dance" blind to everything else around them.

LH...I certainly don't want you to learn anything new if you don't want to!

However...I would like you to go back to my post. I said men and women communicate differently. Disability? No. How women talk and men talk is different and things can get confused or misunderstood because of it.

For example...in this thread I cannot find where anyone criticized WHAT Ms. Palin wears...what was criticized and made fun of was the amount of money that was spent, the hypocrisy, and where the money came from.

You called it a hen party and a bunch of old ladies playing bingo. I am guessing those are not compliments?

You don't think what was being discussed are legitimate topics. I think they go to the question of character. Obviously some others do as well.

So instead of offering a specific reason why these are not legitimate concerns you...

disparage those who disagree with you, so you can continue to do your "superiority dance"

[lizbud]

However...I would like you to go back to my post. I said men and women communicate differently. Disability? No. How women talk and men talk is different and things can get confused or misunderstood because of it.

Well said. Now this is about the most dispassionate, legitimate, explanation
of communication styles as you will ever find. The fact that men & women
use different ways of speaking/writing than men, is just a proven fact.

It's only a disability if you make it one.

[K9soul]

I suspect it's more differing political views than a gender issue. There are plenty of left wing men out there, just not on this board, so somehow conflicts here end up a men versus women situation. I'm sure the guys here would be horrified at the blog entries of one of my favorite authors who is very outspoken in his political views . http://grrm.livejournal.com/

Plus, I think internet/text communication is quite different than in work or face-to-face interactions of daily life.

[lizbud]

Plus, I think internet/text communication is quite different than in work or face-to-face interactions of daily life.

Very true, but it can come down to a communication problem. For instance,
a man & women can have the same political views, but communicate their
thoughts in different ways.(styles)

[Karen]

I am surprised, quite, that you think LH cannot communicate with women. As the youngest of the family, he had a strong-willed mother and two older sisters - as well as an older brother, but the age spread is such that he was in college by the time LH hit kindergarten.

He was raised to communicate well with, and respect women.

Now, by the way I believe it was Richard, not LH who used the term "hen fest." I have never thought of "hen party" as a derogatory term, frankly, just a descriptive one of what often happens in a gathering of women - we talk, we chatter, the more of us, the more noise we make! Hen=female. Not that men don't gab, but their voices tend to be lower pitched, so it's a lower rumble of noise. A gab fest is a gab fest, but a hen fest is all girls.

[K9soul]

For instance,
a man & women can have the same political views, but communicate their
thoughts in different ways.(styles)

I agree with that, and that there are differences in the way men and women communicate. It can take work and learning on the part of both to better understand each other. But sometimes I think it's just a general personality clash more than anything to do with gender.

ETA: I personally wouldn't care for being referred to as part of a 'hen-fest' unless it was meant teasingly. Said seriously, it does seem somewhat condescending to me.

[sparks19]

I am surprised, quite, that you think LH cannot communicate with women. As the youngest of the family, he had a strong-willed mother and two older sisters - as well as an older brother, but the age spread is such that he was in college by the time LH hit kindergarten.

He was raised to communicate well with, and respect women.

Now, by the way I believe it was Richard, not LH who used the term "hen fest." I have never thought of "hen party" as a derogatory term, frankly, just a descriptive one of what often happens in a gathering of women - we talk, we chatter, the more of us, the more noise we make! Hen=female. Not that men don't gab, but their voices tend to be lower pitched, so it's a lower rumble of noise. A gab fest is a gab fest, but a hen fest is all girls.

They don't gab if there is a ball game on TV lol.

I find men are experts at communicating for an afternoon where not one word is uttered except "anyone want another beer while I'm up"

Like when we have a family gathering and all the cousins end up in the living room watching football. The ladies are in the dining room (usually indulging in the desserts lol) talking it up... and the living room is completely silent unless someone scores lol.

and when a group of women get together there is usually more than one conversation going on.. the talking gets loud, it gets fast and it gets high pitched and it SOUNDS like a hen house

[Edwina's Secretary]

He was raised to communicate well with, and respect women.

Now, by the way I believe it was Richard, not LH who used the term "hen fest."

A spirited defense of your little brother Karen! And my apologies if I misattributed one of the demeaning insults used against women.

He did use "Old French Canuck women at bingo on Friday night." "Bunch of old biddies at the bingo hall."

I have to tell you...my strong-willed mother would have washed out my brother's mouth with soap if he had been so insulting to women!

[K9soul]

and when a group of women get together there is usually more than one conversation going on.. the talking gets loud, it gets fast and it gets high pitched and it SOUNDS like a hen house

I guess I'm more an exception to the norm then . I tend to become quiet in a large group or else speak lower one-on-one with someone off away from the main group. I hate competing with a lot of noise. In my ex's family gatherings however, the men were just as loud or louder than the women. It was a big family with a noisy bunch, where-as I was raised in a quiet house with just me and my mother. At the big gatherings, I always retreated to a quieter room after a couple hours to get a break!

[Edwina's Secretary]

If you read Deborah Tannen's book one of the things she talks about...when women talk to each other they nod. This is how women (normally) communicate. It is an indication of "I'm listening." If you look at a group of women talking they look like those dogs with the wiggly heads in the back of automobiles.

When men nod it is -- in "men speak" if you will, a sign of agreement.

The breakdown can occur when a woman is non-verbally saying "I am listening" and the man is non-verbally hearing "I agree with you."

And of course, when the man does not nod...women hear "not listening."

It is a very interesting area of study that crosses cultures as well.

And can be useful to understanding each other.

Perhaps this could be a visual that contributed to the term "hen party" all though I have never heard that term used in any "endearing" way!

[Karen]

A spirited defense of your little brother Karen! And my apologies if I misattributed one of the demeaning insults used against women.

He did use "Old French Canuck women at bingo on Friday night." "Bunch of old biddies at the bingo hall."

I have to tell you...my strong-willed mother would have washed out my brother's mouth with soap if he had been so insulting to women!

My very strong-willed mother might have uttered either of those phrases.
One can respect women without having to never utter a critical word about anyone belonging to that gender. Heck, he'd be accused of pandering if he did.

Have you ever been to a bingo hall in an old mill town on a Friday night? It is quite an interesting experience - there was always plenty of smoke, at my height of 5' 6" I towered over nearly everyone, and the noise level of gossip and chatter could have fooled a casual observer into thinking the bingo was not taken very seriously! Woe be unto thee who made that mistake!