Speaking of illegal immigrants...

[mugsy]

At the risk of sounding callous to PTers...are we saying EVERYONE should be able to come here and live and have all the rights of American citizens without becoming a citizen? I guess I'm a bit confused...I'm proud to be an American, but feel that everyone who wants to come here needs to process properly! I welcome anyone who comes here and follows proper procedures, but, this other crap is for the birds....

As for U.S. History...yes, we were all, at some point, immigrants, with the exception of Native Americans, however, we were subjects of Britain (or Holland, or Germany, or Sweden, etc). When we fought the American Revolution and gained our independence, we wrote the Articles of Confederation (which were basically useless) and then scrapped those and wrote the Constitution and we became the United States of America. At that point there were immigration laws put into place, and while they have changed over time, we still use them today in order to keep our country safe and not over run with masses of humanity.

[ylrebmik]

coming in a bit late here but...

I hate how people can come to our country and not pay taxes for 5 years. It sucks. And I hate how people come up with little organizations to go up against A CHRISTMAS TREE.. give me a break. Also, it annoys me so much how juries work. They put the stupidest people on those things. "Hey, some girl was being dumb and got burned from mcdonalds coffee while driving... let's make someone being stupid rich!" Everything is becoming a scam and if it isn't a scam- it is prejudice. Religion, color, race, doesn't matter. I just had a talk with someone the other day how it's like a white person is becoming the minority and others are being pitied more. Ya, whites did a lot of harm to indians, blacks, etc. but do they need to STILL be paid off? Immigants... why can't they just become a citizen if they hate thier country so much? I don't pity what happened to him because of what happened but i don't agree with what did happen. But then again.. it leads me back to "juries, scams, and prejudice" The juries got him in jail, the parents were scamming and someone out of that (or more) were prejudice. I think the government is going down the drain and something has to be done... or we are just getting stupider. Some of the things are up to the jury people (this one might have) so in a waay... americans could have put him in jail. Americans are using pity and scam to destory eachother. Its sad and i know this is heading off topic.. very... but yeah i'm disgusted with how my country is run sometimes.. even though i hate all governments practically. Systems don't work.

More for people coming here- they can come here all they want but i agree with mugsy- go through it properly.

Also, as long as i am ranting about the government, i do not agree with us being "police of the world" I mean as great as it is, look what happened in Star Wars. The jedi's were the peace keepers and then they turned and killed them off! Now there are people trying to blow planes up through explosives in LIQUID! I wonder when we will learn to keep off and HELP keep peace- not control it.

Alright i can go on forever so i'll stop. But sentence about the actual thread: I don't pity him but i don't agree with what happened.

[lbaker]

huh?

[jackie]

At the risk of sounding callous to PTers...are we saying EVERYONE should be able to come here and live and have all the rights of American citizens without becoming a citizen? I guess I'm a bit confused...I'm proud to be an American, but feel that everyone who wants to come here needs to process properly! I welcome anyone who comes here and follows proper procedures, but, this other crap is for the birds....

Not what I am saying at all.

It was more in response to the few people who feel this man was there illegally and therfore shouldn't be entitled to free legal representation/he is a criminal and deserved jail time.

I don't know, for me it is a touchy subject because I personally know a lot of illegal immigrants here, and they would jump atthe chance to do everything above board.

[Vio&Juni]

There aren't any poor people in the United States or in Canada.

[JenBKR]

There aren't any poor people in the United States or in Canada.

Was that sarcastic? Or are you asking? I sure hope you weren't serious!

[Vio&Juni]

JenBKR, that is exactly the response I was expecting. It's the same I feel when I see phrases like "if they would do it properly". I am sure people don't even know what they are talking about.

Do people really think that you can go to e.g. US Embassy in Moldova and say - I want to be an American citizen? Yes, a lot of Moldovans did get the settlement visa, but most of them were married to American citizens, just like Sparks - that is not immigration - that is a settlement visa for a wife (husband) that can give you the right to apply for citizenship after a few years. But, then again, if your marriage fails you're expected to go back to your country.

People can't go to the US embassy and say "I want to move to the US and live there, and become a citizen because life is better there". But people still want a better life for themselves and for their children and they find ways to get there, maybe with a legal visitor visa, overstaying, maybe crossing the border illegally. The problem exists and it will exist and if you toughen the rules, it just doesn't help cutting down illegal immigration - it will only help the facilitators - prices for their services will go up and the illegal immigrants will just suffer more humiliations when trying to cross the border. Believe me. I come from a country where 1/4 of the country is working abroad illegally. We have huge problems with people trafficking and even organ selling.

My point here is that by shouting loud "I could do it, why can't others do it like me?" it's impossible to solve this problem. The solution isn't simple, it's just as complicated as the problem.

To be understood correctly, I do not say that illegal immigration is good. I never did in this thread. I did say I don't think it is a crime, because by our legislation crime is something related to homicide, we have another word for minor deliquencies. It is illegal. What I tried to say was that people like to point fingers without even trying to understand the situation.

Let's do the following - check the website of the International Organisation for Migration (or any other organisation that deals with migration, BBC website might have some links to some websites) and see for yourselves how sophisticated is this problem and what solutions have been found for illegal immigration in different parts of the world. See the horror people go through to get to a better place and then tell me again "it's a free ride".

BTW, I don't think there is a better place than my country. I'd never leave my country if it was just for a better quality life.

[JenBKR]

JenBKR, that is exactly the response I was expecting. It's the same I feel when I see phrases like "if they would do it properly". I am sure people don't even know what they are talking about.

Gottcha, for a second I was afraid that you may actually believe that everyone here is rich, which is so far from the truth. I tend to not weigh in too much about the immigration issue personally because I can see both sides. Dang, wouldn't life be easier if everyone just loved everyone and anyone could just go wherever they want? In a perfect world.......

[sparks19]

well again all I have to say is I know people who come from far worse countries than mexico (Somalia for example, they can't even eat without flies being all over their food even in restaurants where the "wealthy" people go)

I know people who came from FAR worse conditions that make Mexico look like freaking Club Med. they managed to become legals why is it so difficult to expect people to go through a process. So all the time they have been working illegally in the States what have they done with the money earned? they should spend it on immigration to become legals. I just hate seeing in the news a bunch of bleeding hearts crying because some lady is being deported after living in the States Illegally for 30 years. In that 30 years she never had an opportunity to go through the process? I am sorry I just can't see your point of view.

I started my immigration BEFORE I was married. now that I am married I have to fill out a whole new set of papers. Don't tell me I don't understand how immigration works. I have been doing it for a long time now and I am still not half way done. it sucks. But if you are going to let anyone come in without going through the process then you should allow EVERYONE to do it.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Just curious Sparky....have you ever been to Mexico...or Somalia?

[sparks19]

I have not personally been there but my husband was deployed to Somalia for a year and he has LOTS of pictures. he had to live their "lifestyle" for a year. Not quite as bad as they did because he was there with the army but he could not eat food without eating a couple 10 or 20 flies. They eventually learned to just eat with their eyes closed and just give a quick blow on their food before they stuffed it in their mouths. I trust what my husband tells me

I also know MANY people from Somalia and they all tell me the same.

I have been to mexico. Mexico in real life does NOT compare to Somalia even in pictures. Have you?

LOL P.S - how did you know sparky is my real nickname LOL I love it

[Vio&Juni]

I never mentioned any country, nor Mexico, neither Somalia. Do you think a Somalian can get a Green Card? Most of them came and stayed illegally in the first place and then tried to get a refugee status, which again is not real immigration.

Just out of interest, you said you started your immigration process before you married. Was it a fiancee visa that you applied for?

[Karen]

Sparks19, from where are you emmigrating? Canada?

I know the rules are different from different countries, even the ones that border the US.

I worked with two young women, J and K.

J's mother was a Canadian by birth, her father was American.
K's mother was a Mexican by birth, her father was American.
Both mothers were legal immigrants, and had dual citizenship.
Both girls were born on US soil, spent time living in both countries as children, but most of their time in the US.

When J turned 18, she was granted dual citizenship.
When K turned 18, she had to officially chose - she could have American citizenship, or Mexican citizenship, but not dual citizenship.

Interesting, huh?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I went to school in Mexico the summer I turned 16. I lived and worked in Mexico years later for two years as an expatriate. I have also vacationed there many times. Trust me when I say...vacationing there is NOTHING like living there.

I have been to Africa, but not to Somalia.

[mugsy]

I don't know, for me it is a touchy subject because I personally know a lot of illegal immigrants here, and they would jump atthe chance to do everything above board.

Then why are they not doing it??? Just asking...not trying to be nasty.

I just think that we need to have better border control...on both borders and stiffer penalites for those who come here illegally.

I think we need to take care of our own first and then help others. I know if I lived like some of the people in the back hills of Appalachia and KNEW how much aid was going overseas and I wasn't getting any of it, I would be beyond livid.