separation anxiety???

[yorkster]

Chemmbear- as soon as I posted my reply to Rachel, there you were. I KNOW what you're going through! I see your dog is also half Border Collie like mine, and that is probably where all that energy comes from. I know what you mean too about a walk not being enough- does not even come close to being enough for my dog either. The good thing is she will play ball forever, so that gets a good work out several times a day. Does you dog play ball?
There are a lot of good and knowledgable dog people here that will have some good advice. I'm not sure I would know the answers to your questions concerning your childeren, etc., so I don't want to say anything and give you the wrong advice- I am still a novice at this! Obviously I have a lot to learn myself still. The only thing I can say for sure is that a good dog obedience class will help a lot. Good luck, and I am sure that Ktreva, Rachel, Carrie, Aly, and the rest will have some good advice soon for you.

[TheAntiPam]

Welcome Chembear/Cindy! I hope you like this place as much as I do.

Hey Everyone, be nice to our new friend here! She and those kids of hers are part of my fambly. Well, ok, you can give her a bit of trouble

[chembear]

Talk about feeling welcomed. Thanks Pamster...er...TheAntiPam.
Yorkster, Duchess does not like to play ball...unless it's in the backyard and there's not enough room for her to really get a good run. She loves to chase dogs. We go to the dog park as often as I can get my butt there......I'm working up to every day. It just seems the more she gets to go to the dog park the more she wants to go. Everyone I've talked to about Border Collies has said they need a job.....I'm not sure I've understood what that is. I'm very interested in getting her into agility....I think that would very much help her with her anxiety and use up some of that extra energy.

Cindy

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Hi Cindy, Welcome to PetTalk, I think you have a wonderful active dog there. I won't give you any advice as I'm low on the totem pole as far as making my two Schnauzer terrors do what they are supposed to do.
Perry our male does have separation anxiety to a degree, but all he does is pull the pillows out of the dog house and put them in the sun so they can lay on them. Good luck with your pup, I'm sure the people on here will have excellent advice for you.
Jackie

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by chembear:
<STRONG>My questions are:
1. How do I get my kids trained to ignore the dog when we get home and when we're ready to leave....or is it even important for them to do so?
2. Is this behavior a dominance issue? She listens to me better than anyone else in the household, she sleeps with my son and won't get on our bed unless invited. She does like to sleep on the furniture though.
3. We are planning a big move from Sacramento to Phoenix and I'm concerned about her stressing out over this as well as our being out of the house. What can I do to make the transition smooth and less stressful?

</STRONG>

Hi Cindy, Hopefully your new place has more room for your high energy dog to run. Working off the excess energy is important to the overall health and well being of the dog!

To attempt to answer your questions:

1. It is important for the family to be on the same page in training the dog. At ages 5 and 8 your kids are old enough to understand the dog needs to realize this is not a big thing when we leave or come home. Give them some kind of incentive not to acknowledge the dog. Make it a game of Who speaks to the dog first. The first one too is the loser. Perhaps come up with a different kind of game but don't reprimand the kids or they could begin to resent the dog.

2. While some dominance issues are related to seperation anxiety, I believe the main reason a dog displays seperation anxiety is simply because the dog loves the owner too much and is lacking the independence they need to cope with being alone. You indicated the dog follows you everywhere. This is the typical scenerio of a dog suffering from seperation anxiety. Most dogs that suffer from this have had some emotional trauma in their past. The trauma could be seperation from mom or littermates too early, lack of human contact during the impressionable first 16 weeks of life, or getting attached to someone and having them disappear. In my Dixie's case of separation anxiety the trauma was my husband being hospitalized when she was 12 weeks old. He was in the hospital for 28 days and I was spending a lot of time there. Dixie went and stayed with close friends of ours (they have her littermate) for a week and then came home after the crisis was over. I know she was extremely confused but I had no control over what was going on. I let her get overly attached to me by trying to make up for my extended absenses. I actually was the main contributor to her problem. Therefore, I had to be the main contributor to her healing. It was not easy but we did overcome.

Ignoring the dog before you leave and after you come home for 10 or 15 minutes is a valuable part of the treatment. In addition you need to get the dog to stay in another room when you do certain things. You can give them a stuffed kong, put them on a down stay (you will learn this in obedience classes) or have someone else play with them. When you come back in the room don't make a fuss but calmly acknowledge the dog after you see the dog is calm and not stressed out because you left.

3. I don't see why your move should cause undue stress on the dog if you take certain steps to make sure the dog is safe and secure. First make sure you let the dog have as many potty breaks during the trip as necessary. Exercise adequately and offer water (don't overdo here) and give treats. Traveling always makes our family want to snack in the car more. Take healthy snacks such as carrots, etc. Make sure the dog has enough room to be comfortable and with enough personal space if possible.

In the new home establish the dogs spot as soon as possible. As long as you are there and no major earth shattering thing happens the dog should care less if you live in California or Pheonix. As long as you are there!

[chembear]

Thanks Dixieland Dancer (jeez I Hope I got that right),
That makes perfect sense. We got Duchess from the SPCA. She is about 1 1/2 years old and hadn't been spayed (of course she is now). She's had at least two owners before we got her (I have no plans of getting rid of her, it's just not an option) and perhaps much of her behavior is about being abandoned. Since day one she's latched onto me. The rest of the family is like gravy to her. In the beginning I think she merely tolerated the children, liked my hubby but adored me. Frankly I liked the attention. Now it's a nuisance. I trip over her while cleaning house. I gotta get her to move all the time to vacuum. She will lay right in the way in the kitchen.

I'll start today with having her be in another room while I'm cleaning. Or perhaps let her stay outside a while. She's actually quite pathetic. She's got the saddest puppydog eyes when she knows I'm not pleased with her behavior, then of course I cave-in. From now on I am a rock....ok a sand stone.

Cindy

[ktreva52]

Well, let's see if I can answer some questions as well as Dixieland Dancer. First, Chembear, WELCOME! It's a fun and cool site to learn all sorts of stuff about your dog and your interaction with her. One thing I did not see in your posts was a crate. Does she have one? If not, it might be worth the time and expense to get one before you move. It will be HER room (no children inside, please) and would be a good thing to have for the move. Once she gets acclimated to it, she can ride in it on the move and you can make frequent stops as Dixieland Dancer suggested. Are you planning to stop at a motel on the way? They'll be more inclined to allow her to stay in the room if you have a crate. Otherwise, they might not allow her inside. It is also a good way to help break that running around when you get home. It is difficult for a 5 year old to avoid a Llewellyn Setter/Border Collie mix simply due to size (unless the child is very tall). Thus, that child will lose almost all the "ignore" games you might come up with. Also, it will allow her to be somewhere where you aren't and allow you to do whatever you need to without her underfoot. I don't ordinarily recommend the wire crates, but in this case, it might be the better option. That way, she can watch you from her "room" and be less anxious about being separated from you.

As for Scout, get that dog into flyball!! Really, it is better to learn to control the playing -- you, not her. When you are about ready to go inside, take the ball and tell her to potty (go potty, whatever the command you want to use). Take her to her spot and just plan to be there a while. She should receive one command and then be ignored until she responds as requested. Then, a toss of the ball toward the house and lots of praise and inside you go. I have always been one to let the dogs out on a tie-out if there's no fence or just out if there is a fence and they don't get back in until I'm sure (either by observance or after a good while) they've gone. I'm still having some problem with my 1 year old Jack Russell Terrier -- she likes to go first and request out after. I'm getting better at reading her, but we're still working on it. If necessary, put Scout in her crate for about 15 minutes when you first come back inside and then run her out to potty before she gets freedom again. Dixieland Dancer has another thing I think you need to consider -- a consistent schedule. I'm sure they covered that at PetsMart, but when you know something is going in (food, water, treats, etc.) you have a fair idea of when it's going to come out and you can plan for that. Mine go out before breakfast and I offer about 20 minutes after. If they don't go out, Lys (the JRT) goes into her crate and Shiloh (JRT cross) gets to sleep on my bed and I go off to work. Then, when I get home Shiloh goes out on the tie-out and when she gets done, Lys goes out, but does not come out of her crate until I'm ready to put her out. Usually, Shiloh likes to go out again after Lys, just to hang out and watch the neighborhood. No big deal. Still, we have a fairly consistent schedule and the girls can pretty well accomodate it. The only thing that ruins it is heavy rain -- Shiloh HATES rain and will hold her potty session until the rain goes away or at least slackens a LOT.

Anyway, I hope that helps some. Email me if I can be more help or more specific, or, I'll check back and see what's happening here.

[yorkster]

Ktreva- Well, rain is always a given here (Seattle), but Scout LOVES to be wet, so it is not a problem! It is a hassle for me sometimes though, like when I am dressed and ready to go somewhere, then have to go out and play ball, etc.
Anyway, Scout 'graduated' from basic obedience last Sunday. Yeah!!! I am thinking about taking the next level, which gets into agility and something called 'clicker training'- does it work? I had never heard of it bedore. She is doing much better about not going potty on the floor/rug ever since I caught her. Now, I take her outside and say 'go potty', and when she is done, THEN I will play ball. Once in awhile she will not go, so I take her back in the house and there is no ball until she goes. She seems to be getting it finally. One thing though: she has gone a couple times in her crate lately. What's that about? No more accidents in the house, but now her crate....... I am quite sure now that she never was housebroken when I got her. Poor thing- she was 3 yrs. old. I should add too that she is never in her crate for longer than 4-5 hours at a time, and usually less. Thanks for all your advice so far!

[RachelJ]

I think I would be inclined to check to see if she had a urinary track infection. They can be sneaky sometimes. It wouldn't hurt to rule this out.

[yorkster]

Rachel, I was just wondering about that earlier tonight. I will make an apt. with the vet tomorrow. There are times that she seems to be able to hold it for quite awhile (like overnight), but if they are sneaky.....I guess you never know.

[ktreva52]

Yorkster -- Congratulations on your graduation from obedience! A fantastic accomplishment for you and Scout. I'm with Rachel, it can't hurt to have her checked for a urinary tract infection and you might ask the vet to check her for diabetes at the same time. On the off chance he/she detects bladder stones (one of mine had this diagnosis about 6 years ago), go with the prescription diet for a couple of months and then move her to a GOOD senior diet like Authority (PetsMart's house brand).

Liking to be wet is the Labbie in her. They love water and will take it in any form. It sucks when you're all dressed up and they come in and shake on you, but it beats having a wussy dog like mine that hates to go out in it at all.

If you can get into that advanced class and work on agility, I think that would be great and Scout will probably love it! Remember, this dog has more brains than she knows what to do with and the more advanced work will give her something to think about. And the activity level will satisfy her need for doing. Keep up the good work, sounds like you two are really getting it together. Good luck at the vet's.

[Dixieland Dancer]

About Scout going in the crate, two things come to mind.

1. The crate may be too big and needs to partitioned off. There should not be extra space in the crate during housetraining. Usually (like almost 99% of the time) a dog will not soil in their sleeping quarters. If there is room for Scout to "GO" and still not be near the "MESS" then the crate is too big. After housetraining is complete you can take the partition out of the crate and let him have the extra space when crated.

2. If the crate is not to big and the dog is soiling it could be medical. Taking Scout to the vet is advisable.

Congratulations on completing basic obedience. Continue in more classes so you can continue to bond with Scout. The most important part of any training is to reward desired behavior and don't reward unwanted behavior. If you follow this method you can do anything with your dog.

Best of Luck!

[yorkster]

Thanks to all of you. She has a vet. apt. for Monday morn. Have good weekends everyone! Oh, one more thing: Rachel, I get my film back tomorrow, and will send one or two your way. BYE for now.

[RachelJ]

Great, I'll be watching the mail for them, and I'll scan as many as you want.

When Ktreva mentioned diabetes, it reminded me of when Hannah was a pup. As practically everyone on the site knows she held the title of being the hardest puppy ever to housebreak. I work from home and had the strategy to take her out every hour and then gradually lenghten the interval as she matured. I kept her gated in the kitchen so she could romp and play, rather than crating her. I'd come to get her after the hour and there would be a puddle on the floor. Surely a two month old puppy should be able to last one hour without peeing. I was certain that I had a diabetic puppy! I consulted the vet and he did not feel it was necessary to test her, didn't think that was the problem. I was really upset, because now I knew I had a diabetic puppy who wasn't getting any treatment. Of course it turned out the vet was right, and she was just one of those puppies who was really into drinking a lot of water, and then the puppy that couldn't hold it for an hour became the puppy who wouldn't go when we went outside. (It became difficult to judge how often was enough and how often was too much). There were times I thought I had a dog that would never be housebroken.It was a long ordeal but eventually we accomplished our goal. Hence I preach patience and preseverance.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Rachel,
Using the crate would of helped the process immensely. I have puppies thoroughly housebroken by 10-12 weeks using the crate. Once they are housebroken they aren't crated any longer. The kitchen is too big an area to deal with during housebreaking.

The major reason dogs take sooooo long to house train is because they don't understand completely what the owner expects. If you ever have to go through it again you may want to consider the crate training method. It is wonderful and less stress on the dog in the long run. And not a huge one for a little puppy!

[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: Dixieland Dancer ]