is this cruel?

[K9soul]

Aly, I guess I should have been a little clearer, I meant in reference to any thread that talks about a training method being "cruel" and not just this thread. Such as there was the crate training one where someone said they felt crating was cruel. I just think you have to be careful when expressing your opinion to avoid words like that, it is very hard not to take personally. Hope that clears it up a bit, I truly did not mean it just to be aimed at you.

[jackie]

I may have used the word cruel in my post because it was in my head from the title of this thread.

sorry. i used the word cruel because i couldn't think of a more suitable word.

I was just interested in others peoples thoughts about this collar.

[aly]

Originally posted by jackie
sorry. i used the word cruel because i couldn't think of a more suitable word.

I was just interested in others peoples thoughts about this collar.

Oh I wasn't blaming you at all. Tons of people do think the collar is cruel. It wasn't bad of you to ask about it.

I hope all of our responses haven't confused you, hehe.

[My Peanuts]

I have something to add that I didn't say in my post. I would never use this on my dogs because they are too small. I don't think they even make them for small dogs, but if they did I wouldn't use them. Like I said, I don't think they are cruel if used properly. Grizz is 145lbs and he has thick hair. I doubt he feels too much when he pulls. Sylvia is 17lbs and Harley is 22 lbs. I think using this on dogs that size would be wrong. I can control a 22 lb dog safely, but as I said, a 145lb dog is hard for anyone to handle. There are other ways to control a small dog versus a very large dog.

Anyway, the thing must work because Grizz walks well on a leash and he doesn’t need the collar anymore.

[sammy101]

Ive tried everything with Kodie for him to stop pulling.He's too stubborn His obediance Trainer told us to get him him,because she knew that he likes to pull.This thing works very well on him,he responds good to it.If he didnt have it on,i'd be getting dragged around in the dirt,literally.I dont plan on using it on Lucy though,she walks nicely already and dont have any problems with her I dont have a problem with it if its used properly.I see mostly the Larger breeds walked with a Prong collar.ive never seen a small dog with one.

[tikeyas_mom]

i found the prong was a very useful collar to use when training Baby not to pull. I also used it on Tikeya as a young dog, it was a very good tool to use to get you to heal and walk by my side...

I dont think they are crule at all..

[anna_66]

I have used the prong for Roxey, but no longer need to.

I've tried it with Huney and she'll pull anyway so I don't use it on her. I honestly haven't worked with her that much and it's my fault and I totally take the blame for that.

Angus never even really needed a leash, he just stayed right there with you

And Bon...so far he has no pulling issues so I don't have to worry about it

But, whenever I take any of them out I put their choke/training collar on. Both Roxey and Huney have "slipped" out of their regular collar and I don't want this to happen.

[wolfsoul]

I agree with Jessica. I don't think it was the title of the thread that bothered me, but when people keep saying that it's cruel, it irks me. It makes me feel like people think I'm being intentionally abusive to animals.

I've heard several times people mentioning haltis, etc, and these are some reasons I prefer the prong collar. Not to say any of these other methods are "cruel." Different things for different dogs.

With the prong collar, Timber knows that if she pulls, the prongs will pinch her. So she doesn't pull, and there's no discomfort. She is relaxed. There is no strain on my arm (I have a bad arm).

The halti has to be one of the worst experiences I've ever had. No matter what size you put on her, if she pulls backwards, she can slip out of it. She pulls so hard and jerks her head around that EVERY single time she wears a halti, her tongue bleeds. And if anyone has ever had a dog with a bleeding tongue, they know that the blood just pours. The halti makes her yelp, it makes her unhappy, and yet she still continues to pull.

Her nylon collar is what she wears all the time. When she wears it with a leash, she pulls, and makes a hoarse "seal" type sound, like she's being choked and can't breathe. If I continuously walked her with that, she would have so much damage to the trachea.

The second best thing I've used is the no-pull body harness. However, if she wants to go bad enough, she can use her entire body to overpower me. The straps cut off the circulation under her legs. It tires my arm.

When she lived with me, she walked fairly well. I used the "stop walking when she pulls" method. However, it didn't work alot of the time, and now that she is living from me, and the bus schedule changed, I can't be there to train her to walk better every single day. Whenever my aunt or uncle tried to take her for a walk, she would pull like crazy. So they never walked her. I reccommended the prong collar because I had seen how well she walked when she wore Leather's. They got one, and now she gets two walks a day. They tried obedience classes, but dropped out shortly because she was too much to handle in such an environment. Luckily I'm getting her back in just over 3 months and I can retrain her and she will do well again. Maybe I can even get her to walk nicely on leash again. But for now, the prong collar is the safest thing for her, and it actually allows her to be walked. If letting her get exersise without any discomfort or stress is negative reinforcement, than I must be a really cruel person for wanting her to have a relaxing and happy walk.

Some dogs will pull no matter what type of collar they wear. Every dog is different, and the prong collar works for Timber.

[lizbud]

I used the prong collar with Buddy at the recommendation of
my Vet. I mentioned Bud's pulling on leash when he was about
2 yrs old. Buddy never objected to it at all & would sit quietly
while I put it on before walks. I never considered it a training
device, because it didn't "train" him, but it sure made walks a
whole lot safer for both of us. Never used it for Smokey or
Maggie, but I don't expect them to get as large as Buddy was.

[LorraineO]

Originally posted by aly


I told her SEVERAL times I was not calling her uneducated. She latched on to that word and wouldn't let go or listen to me. I can't really do anything about that.

I

you can say you were not calling me or ppl who use the prong as uneducated or rather not educated enuff all you like,,, the bottom line is that you did. I suggest you re read your post where you say that.... Thats what I take offense to,not your beliefs,,,, I simply *latch onto* what is said to me. If its not what you meant,, then why did you say it? enlighten me,, I am listening

[Samantha Puppy]

I have to say, I'm neutral on the subject as I see the pros and cons of both arguments but I didn't take Aly's comment to mean anyone here was uneducated. Lorraine, chill. She didn't mean that personally. Aly's more classy than that.

[Kfamr]

Lorraine, I think you're being incredibly unfair to Aly.

Aly is a VERY kind-hearted person. She would never in anyway insult someone, belittle someone, or call them uneducated.


I read her post several times and there's not one setence that refers to you or anyone else whom uses the prong collar being uneducated. She did, however, say that people are more educated now. I can see where possibly you have taken that in the wrong way, but if she says she did not mean it in the way you're percieving it, she means it.

She's not one to lie or indirectly say something, she has far more class and tact than that.

[RobiLee]

There was a time when I thought the prong collar was a hideous torture device. It just looked so wicked and I thought for sure that it would hurt any dog. Alden had been wanting me to try it but I refused. Katie is somewhat difficult to walk but I can control her. Tori, on the other hand is completely uncontollable. I am not exaggerating. It wouldn't matter how much I had worked with her or if I had treats in my hand. All that girl wants to do is go, go and go. She pulls so hard and actually gets her belly down low to the ground to pull as hard as she can. I beleive she is a true sled dog . It was very embarrassing not to be able to walk her properly and I certainly could not walk both of the girls together. I went to visit a very close friend and she asked me if I had ever tried the prong collar. I told her how I felt about it, but she showed me how to use it and told me to just give it a try and let me borrow hers. So, I did. Well, let me tell you that it was the best thing that the girls and I ever got! I can now walk Tori with no problems what so ever. It worked so well that I immediately went and got one for Katie. I have never seen either of my girls show any signs of pain or distress when they are wearing their prong collars. Every time they see us get the prong collars out they get super excited because they know it means WALK TIME. The best part about it is that I can now walk both Katie and Tori at the same time all by myself! I love it!!!

I am not saying what is right or wrong all I am saying is that I don't believe it is cruel and it works for me. I would also like to add that I would hope the no one would look down on me because I use these collars. Anyone who knows me even a little bit knows how much I love my girls. They mean everything to me and I would never ever hurt them.

Robin

[MariaM]

While Major has never used a prong collar, I'm not against them being used properly.

Major used the halti. It works well for him. He does not like it one bit, but he accepts it and he thinks that a walk with a halti is better than no walk at all. And I think that a walk with a halti is better than with a normal leash, him choking himself. I did train him well to walk without pulling, with a normal leash, but sometimes he'd lunge without me expecting it, if he saw a cat, dog, person, and that is really hard to handle. So I use the halti.

I believe all dogs are different as well. Kay mentioned that she stopped when Nala pulled. I tried that for Major, didn't work at all. He yapped and yapped and yapped. That is a training method that I'm sure works great for some dogs, but not at all for Major.

I am totally for positive reinforcement. But I also know every dog is different and respond differently to different training/band-aid devices.

I usually stay out of these threads, even though they aren't all that bad or anything, just because I always have a hard time typing out my true opinion. I usually end up wanting to go back on something I said, because it ended up being worded wrong. So hopefully this time I got what I wanted to say across.

[dukedogsmom]

Way off topic but I've got to say, Maria, your new sig is great!