The children be darned! Tobacco taxes.

[Edwina's Secretary]

May I assume you will never accept Medicare or Social Security ???

Or unemployment. Or food stamps. Or workers' comp. Or veterans benefits.

We can certainly tell he did not take advantage of public education.

He does not even know the correct names of the states!

[sparks19]

WOW

[pomtzu]

The POTUS promised he wouldnt raise taxes on the poor, news flash, most smokers and tobacco users are poor!

I just heard something on the evening news that backs this up:

34% of people with an income under $12,000 are smokers. yet only 13% of people with an income over $90,000 are smokers.

Just a little bit of useless info if anyone is interested.......

[Edwina's Secretary]

I just heard something on the evening news that backs this up:

34% of people with an income under $12,000 are smokers. yet only 13% of people with an income over $90,000 are smokers.

Just a little bit of useless info if anyone is interested.......

It would be interested to know further coorelation. Are they poor because they smoke or do they smoke because they are poor?

Is it because they cannot afford smoking cessation programs? Stress? Hopelessness?

It is a bit counter-intuitive. It is an expensive habit -- it has been for many, many years. So it would seem to be something that people who cannot afford it would not do.

Are there any other correlations that might help explain it? Education level -- anything like that?

[pomtzu]

It would be interested to know further coorelation. Are they poor because they smoke or do they smoke because they are poor?

Is it because they cannot afford smoking cessation programs? Stress? Hopelessness?

It is a bit counter-intuitive. It is an expensive habit -- it has been for many, many years. So it would seem to be something that people who cannot afford it would not do.

Are there any other correlations that might help explain it? Education level -- anything like that?

It really didn't say any more than to give the figures at the end of a discussion of the tobacco tax.
I personally think it's probably a double-edged sword: smoke/poor - poor/smoke.
And I feel that stress and hopelessness play a much bigger role than not being able to afford a cessation program. Also, most people that smoke do so because they enjoy it, and just aren't interested in quitting. Now that prices are getting out of reach for the lower income folks who do, many will do so out of necessity and not because they really want to. I doubt that you'll see much of a drastic decline in the upper income bracket folks who smoke, since money isn't as much of an issue with them. IMO of course!

[ChrisH]

They have banned smoking in your own car here in Indiana. In Monroe
county (Bloomington,Ind.) a proposel to ban smoking in a car with kids
under 13yrs old, passed and is now law in that county. I wouldn't have
believed it, but it happened.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=7164861

Painter fined for smoking in van

A painter and decorator says he is "dumbfounded" after a £30 fine for smoking a cigarette in his own van. Gordon Williams, of Llanafan, Aberystwyth, says he had popped to the shops when he was pulled over by Ceredigion council officials. "I was told that because my van is my place of work I had broken the smoking laws," he said.

A council spokesman said Mr Williams had acknowledged the offence and elected to pay the fixed penalty.

"I am dumbfounded - the van is only insured for private use and to get me to and from work," added Mr Williams, from Llanafan, near Aberystwyth. "It not my place of work - I decorate houses not vans."

The grandfather decried the on-the-spot penalty as the "Big Brother state going too far". He added: "I respect anyone who chooses not to smoke, but I would also ask for the same respect to have the freedom to smoke in my own private vehicle."

Mr Williams was driving on the A487 near Aberystwyth in his unmarked blue Suzuki Carrier van when he was pulled over by council officials carrying out spot checks on the safety of vehicles.

He believes it is the first ticket of its kind handed out by the council since the smoking regulations came in last year - the fixed penalty notice was number 0001.

He was on a shopping errand to pick up teabags for his wife when he was stopped. Mr Williams added: "I take the wife shopping in the van. It is my private vehicle as well as my work van."

Mr Williams' wife Sue has already paid the fine, fearing it would increase if not settled promptly. But her husband remains defiant, and said he would be challenging the punishment. "I have appealed against this even though I initially paid the fine otherwise it would have increased to £50."

Simon Clark, the director of smoking freedom group Forest, condemned the fine as "absolutely ridiculous".He said: "It smacks of some jobsworth council official interpreting the law to the most extreme level. This surely is not what the change in the law was intended for - it was not meant to harass and persecute people going about their ordinary lives. It is ridiculous that someone should be fined for smoking in their own private vehicle away from any workplace."

A spokesman for Ceredigion council said Mr Williams's vehicle was stopped by police as part of a multi-agency operation.

"A total of 56 vehicles were stopped and inspected during the initiative and, as a result, three fixed penalty notices were issued in connection with contraventions of the smoking in smoke-free places legislation," said the spokesman. "All three fixed penalties have been paid."

"When stopped, both Mr Williams and his male passenger were found to be smoking. Based on information received from Mr Williams at the scene, fixed penalty notices were served on both persons. Both persons have now acknowledged the offences and elected to pay the fixed penalty rather than having the matter considered by the court."

The spokesman added the matter was therefore considered to be closed and no record of criminal conviction would be recorded against the individuals concerned.

A Welsh Assembly Government spokesman said: "The smoke-free regulations state that a vehicle shall be smoke-free if it is used for work by more than one person, regardless of whether they are in the vehicle at the same time, to protect everyone who uses the vehicle from the harmful effects of exposure to second-hand smoke, regardless of when they use the vehicle. Smoking is permitted in vehicles used for work purposes that are for the sole use of the driver and are not used as a workplace by anyone else, either as a driver or a passenger."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...es/7524526.stm

[Catlady711]

This is just the first step, wait till you see what comes next...... http://aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf

[blue]

Aren't you the clever little racist!

Clever? I have my moments, if I where realy clever I would have writen the book and be a best selling author.

Racist? Hardly, unless Kalifornians are now a race of their own, but thanks for the insult.

May I assume you will never accept Medicare or Social Security ???

I dont expect either to be around in the near future, so Im planning ahead.

Or unemployment. Or food stamps. Or workers' comp. Or veterans benefits.

We can certainly tell he did not take advantage of public education.

He does not even know the correct names of the states!

I currently qualify for Food Stamps and no I am not participating, families with kids have a far greater need for the funds then I do.

Ive paid more into unemployment, and workmans comp then I have recieved back by a longshot, and they are not the same as government handouts.

To equate Veterans Benifits as a handout is an insult to every man and woman who has served the United States of America who earned those benifits by serving.

I graduated public school with honors, so again thanks for the insult.

For someone who likes to make fun of and insult others you realy dont understand sarcasm in the least.

[ChrisH]

This is just the first step, wait till you see what comes next...... http://aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf

Over the top maybe but, sadly, I can believe a watered down version could happen someday, maybe someday soon.

[Lady's Human]

Due to the moderators having slightly more important things to deal with at the moment, I have a request.

If you feel the need to insult, belittle or otherwise disrespect each other ,

DO IT IN PM'S

It is entirely possible to discuss politics without insults.

Try it, you might actually enjoy it.

[pomtzu]

To equate Veterans Benifits as a handout is an insult to every man and woman who has served the United States of America who earned those benifits by serving.

I'm not very often in agreement with anything that "blue" has to say, however, this is an exception. I stand behind this statement 100%!

[Puckstop31]

I'm not very often in agreement with anything that "blue" has to say, however, this is an exception. I stand behind this statement 100%!

I'll add that providing for a military is one of the very few things the Federal Government is actually allowed to do via the Constitution.

I am a combat wounded veteran. Do I personally think that entitles me to anything special? No, absolutley not. My view is that it was a PRIVILIDGE for me to serve this country that I love in the way that I was able. Sure, I have a partial hearing loss in my left ear from the service. A hand grenade explosion, being a tank crewman and LOTS of combat shooting (no ear plugs) will do that to ya. But again, I am not going to take the money I am "entitled" to because of that. I don't NEED it.

My Dad on the other hand.... He is fighting stage 3 non-hodgkins lymphoma that the VA says is the result of Agent Orange exposure from his 2 tours of duty in Vietnam. Nothing to say of the mental anguish he still quietly fights to this day. I've only seen my Dad cry ONCE in my entire life. That was at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC. Don't we think he might have actually EARNED a little gratitude from our country?

So, it IS a little insulting to compare Welfare to Veterans Benefits.

[Puckstop31]

I thought you already had done this. That's what you based your opinions
of the man on, right?

Good point... It would be a lot of effort to show what I am talking about and the target audience would not read it all anyway.

Thanks!

[pomtzu]

I'll add that providing for a military is one of the very few things the Federal Government is actually allowed to do via the Constitution.

I am a combat wounded veteran. Do I personally think that entitles me to anything special? No, absolutley not. My view is that it was a PRIVILIDGE for me to serve this country that I love in the way that I was able. Sure, I have a partial hearing loss in my left ear from the service. A hand grenade explosion, being a tank crewman and LOTS of combat shooting (no ear plugs) will do that to ya. But again, I am not going to take the money I am "entitled" to because of that. I don't NEED it.

My Dad on the other hand.... He is fighting stage 3 non-hodgkins lymphoma that the VA says is the result of Agent Orange exposure from his 2 tours of duty in Vietnam. Nothing to say of the mental anguish he still quietly fights to this day. I've only seen my Dad cry ONCE in my entire life. That was at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC. Don't we think he might have actually EARNED a little gratitude from our country?

So, it IS a little insulting to compare Welfare to Veterans Benefits.

Kudos to you Puck. There aren't too many folks out there that wouldn't take advantage of the benefit that they have earned in service to their country if they had the health issues that you noted. It's your prerogative to do as you see fit in this case, and if you wish to decline because you don't need the money or services, then you are among a very rare few indeed. (I would imagine anyway - no statistics to back that one up!)
But if you change your mind in the future and feel that you need the services, in no way could it ever be looked upon as a handout!

[Puckstop31]

Thanks Pomtzu. My service was, to me, just that... SERVICE.

The only VA benefits I have ever used are the GI Bill/Army College Fund and the VA home loan programs. I paid into the GI Bill, to get the benefit after I left active service. The home loan program only "gave" me about $2500 at closing. That is a one time fee that insures the loan in lieu of having to pay PMI. Saves me about $300 a month on my payment. That is more than enough for me.