Banned from grad for senior prank

[K9soul]

I didn't see any teen bashing. I have a lot of respect for people no matter what age if they can act respectful and with an awareness of others' feelings. I simply feel someone shouldn't be "let off the hook" and excused for any behavior that harms property or is damaging no matter WHAT age they are. It should never be acceptable.

I agree with everything Johanna stated in her last post on this one. And I do not believe I behave in a derogatory manner to anyone here based on age.

[Alysser]

I loved this post, I get tired of all the teen bashing on here, I think there are some pretty mature fine individuals on this site that happen to be teens.

I agree, thank you pembroke_corgi and caseysmom. JUST because teenagers are younger then adults doesn't mean they are stupid. I hate how a couple of bad apples ruin the reputation for the rest of us. I am also sick of the constant bashing, it needs to stop.

[Cataholic]

I agree, thank you pembroke_corgi and caseysmom. JUST because teenagers are younger then adults doesn't mean they are stupid. I hate how a couple of bad apples ruin the reputation for the rest of us. I am also sick of the constant bashing, it needs to stop.

I thought the OP was about someone unknown to all of us. Right? Wasn't it something in the paper somewhere that someone posted? So, when the comments came in, weren't the comments directed towards this particular teen? How is that teen bashing? Maybe bashing one teen (if, in fact, it was bashing at all), but, not teen bashing.

Like K9soul- bring me upstanding behaviour, or the raunchiest kind, regardless of age, and I applaud/disagree with the conduct. This really isn't about 'age'. It is about maturity, 'world' views, and social responsibility.

Maltese love, I hate to 'wax poetic', but, from my experience, the 'bad apple' spoils the bunch not only in high school, but, in the real world too.

Why do employers enact dress codes? Hours of employment? Policies of phone use, computer use, lunch hours, vacation, fraternization at the work place? Why do municipalites enact leash laws? Noise ordinances? Zoning codes? Heck, where I live, I can only put my trash out to the curb a set number of hours ahead of the appointed pickup.

Because 'bad apples' spoil the bunch. If this is distasteful commentary from some old bat, so be it. I wouldn't want to have your system shocked when you leave school.

I do love this debate, teens are people, too; but, not up to the point where personal responsibility comes into play.

It is a cruel, cruel world. I didn't make it, but, I do have to live in it. So do you and all the others.

[caseysmom]

I realize the op was about another teen but there seemed to be a lot of broad sweeping generalizations going on.

I have two teens, they are night and day I wouldn't think that either of them could be generalized in one way.

[sparks19]

Back in my day, there was much more respect for 'authority' in whatever form you put it- police, teachers, parents. Take a ten minute walk in any mall and tell me you don't see that for yourself. .

While this is very true and I cannot often believe the language coming out of kids these days.... I know that I was not always a perfect child but I often say "Im glad I never behaved like that" but the truth is I probably did sometimes.

As for there being respect for authority in your day..... That may be true for YOU.... but I know there are many people your age and older that do not respect authority now nor did they back then. Even my dad got the strap a time or two at school for being a bugger lol. Everyone has their moments when they are less than perfect.

In fact, some of the rudest people I have ever met are the "older back in my day" crowd. So while it is easy to sit back and say "I'm glad I never behaved like that. I always respected everyone." (even I find myself saying the same thing and I am only 26) It likely isn't true that you were ALWAYS respectful and never had less than top notch moments.

I don't think it is any worse to be totally rude and ignorant to an authority figure or just your average joe. Being rude is being rude, I don't think it matter who you are speaking to.

LOL and totally off topic.... I love how you referred to yourself as an old bat.... that's funny. I love that term and I hope I can be an old bat one day

[Cataholic]

Sparks19, forgive me if you feel I ever came across as if I were claiming I were perfect. Not than, not now, and I fear I won't be in the future, either. I have done some stupid things in my past, and while maybe not up to the level of some I hear about, stupid nonetheless.

BUT, I don't feel my imperfections mean I cannot hold an opinion. If that were the case, there wouldn't be a single person on the board, eh?

As for whether or not anyone has been rude or disrespectful to others in the past, I do feel that our own analysis of whether we have or have not been might not be the best indicator!

[sparks19]

Sparks19, forgive me if you feel I ever came across as if I were claiming I were perfect. Not than, not now, and I fear I won't be in the future, either. I have done some stupid things in my past, and while maybe not up to the level of some I hear about, stupid nonetheless.

BUT, I don't feel my imperfections mean I cannot hold an opinion. If that were the case, there wouldn't be a single person on the board, eh?

As for whether or not anyone has been rude or disrespectful to others in the past, I do feel that our own analysis of whether we have or have not been might not be the best indicator!

I never said your opinion wasn't valid.... only that there are a great deal of people in the "back in my day" generation that are very rude and ignorant.... not saying that you are one of them.... and as time goes by I REALLY try to be respectful to everyone.... of course that comes easier when dealing with some people than it does with others. I find being in retail that it takes a conscious effort for me to be pleasant to the nasty customers that just want to complain... but I try my best

It's funny.... I was just talking to an old friend the other day from elementary school and we were talking about all the things we used to do... man we were BUGGERS sometimes lol. We did some STUPID things. everyone does... it's called growing up now whether we bring that stupid behaviour into adult hood or leave it behind in our younger years is another matter.

[cassiesmom]

I graduated from parochial high school 24 years ago. (24 years ago June 10th, in fact. ) You could get in serious trouble really fast if you said or did anything disrespectful, not just to the teachers or principal, but to the librarian, office staff, bus drivers, custodians, basically any adult. Sometimes I wonder how I would get through high school if I were a student now. My sister-in-law teaches middle school and from the stories she tells I think things are just a lot different for kids. The Internet, media, the role of families and the function of a family in a child's life, things have just changed a lot. It seems to me that life just moves faster now than it did when I was in high school in the early '80s. I don't know if that is really possible, but it sure seems that way to me.

Edited to ask: Could it be that the expectations placed on kids are just different? Or, were my parents just tougher on discipline than the parents of today? I don't know. I can tell you I was a kid who toed the line and never took a risk. Even now, at 40, I'm risk-averse. Back then I wouldn't have dared to glue the trays together out of fear of the consequences.

[sparks19]

I also think what is considered rude has changed a little bit as well.... I mean of course foul language is ALWAYS rude.... although you do hear it everywhere today even on commercials.

But some people find it just as rude to be called ma'am or sir as it is to be told to pound salt.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Back in my day, there was much more respect for 'authority' in whatever form you put it- police, teachers, parents. Take a ten minute walk in any mall and tell me you don't see that for yourself. As for the comment to teen pregnancy, I would wager a bet it is because of more widely available forms of protection, better education as to sex, etc., rather than some comment on the status of the (American) world today. As for less violence? Where do you see that? Certainly not in the mass tragedies that have haunted this country since Columbine. Certainly not in the criminal justice system that is full of teen defendants. There are more alternative high schools in this country now than ever before- all the cater to those that can't pass in the more traditional sense.

Not knowing you personally, I have no idea what decade you grew up in. However, many people in my parent's generation started a profound lack of disrespect for authority. Or did you read a different history about the 1960's? Since when did people then have a respect for most kinds of authority? Some of it was for good reason- consider the civil rights movement, for example. Some of it was fashion, popular culture, the throws of youth, whatever you want to call it with phrases like "don't trust anyone over 30." There were mass demonstrations, riots, and any number of events that could be considered "disrespectful." I fail to see how today's youth is more "disrespectful" than that.

As for less violent crime, look here: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm, you will see that most kinds of violent crime peaked in the early 1990's. Not only was there more crime then- and it has more or less steadily declined- but we have a higher population now. And sex education is a good thing, lowered teen pregnancies show that providing teens with information that actually works- not just using the same half- information that their parents learned.

As for getting a paper back with a red "x" on it, versus a more friendly written reason for the incorrect attitude, there is a middle ground. How about the student look up the right answer him/herself? There is some research that suggests the many different ways we receive the material can better cement it into our memories- hearing it, writing it, reading/seeing it, reiterating it. So, to somehow suggest it is incumbent upon the teacher to give it to the student, without putting some responsibility upon the student, isn't really 'teaching' is it?

You are assuming that 1) teachers have the time to make sure their students actually look this stuff up and 2) students will continue learning the material after their test is over. Many current educational laws (i.e. No Child Left Behind) encourage schools to teach to the test- they have to in order to get funding. Therefore, whether or not a student learns the information or not is irrelevant to getting funding. Only rote memorization is required. I'm certainly not advocating this, in fact I think it's setting our education further behind the developed world. However, providing students with an answer is certainly more helpful then just telling them it's wrong.

I believe many people were speaking in more casual ways- the word teen COULD very well be a 19 year old, a legal adult. But, a 14 or 16 year old is not an adult, I agree. Does this mean you feel there is no accountability for someone under the age of 18? Or, that some lightswitch suddenly flips at 18, and the person leaves his childish ways behind? There is a gradation process, I believe. (Some never reaching it, of course, and some reaching it much earlier that believable). But, to somehow fail to mention the 'right' way, just cause someone is young seems irresponsible. I tell my 2 year old all the time the way things should be done. I don't expect him to comply, fully understand, but, I still shoulder this responsibility.

Of course I think there should be accountability. But telling the kid he can't attend his graduation ceremony is kind of arbitrary. Why not make him work in the cafeteria to pay for the damage, for example- a lesson that is directly related to the crime, something that can actually teach a lesson instead of playing some kind of power struggle. I'm sure the kid isn't suffering because he can't go- most likely his parents are more upset than him.

My remark about teens was that people are simultaneously telling teens to "grow up" and then remarking on how immature they are. How are they supposed to do that if they have constant reminders about how unworthy they are? I see people on this site belittle younger members all the time, and often dismiss their viewpoints because they are still in high school. In my experience, age does not equal wisdom. I work with children and teens, and often times I see more "common sense" in them then I ever see in other adults.

Besides, if adults have so much more wisdom and propriety than teens, why are they making petty comments that I see all the time? Why would they even feel the need to say how much smarter and world-wise they are; you would think that would be self-evident. Even subtle remarks like "tell me what you think in 10 years" are condescending jabs that are completely ridiculous. It really annoys me that people assume someone else will feel the same as they do just due to the passing of time. We all have our own unique experiences that allow us to have unique opinions. Teens should be allowed to express their views without criticism like that.

[Cataholic]

PM- You seem to be taking this thread pretty personally. I am not sure why, but, of course, you can. I really don't see the same "everyone keeps saying this...", or "I always see the belittling comments..." or any of the other over generalizing statments you are making. I have read the thread twice, in its entirety.

Frankly, I don't see "check back in 10 years.." in quite the inflammatory way that you do. I think most of us would agree our perspectives do change over time. Is that good, bad or evil, I don't know. I would not go so far as to call it a 'fact' that people mature over time, but, certainly, it isn't a fictional statment, either.

I never know how to respond to someone that says something along the lines of, "well, all the adults I know are immature, and the kids have WAY more common sense then them", other than: change your friends. I see people from all walks of life, daily. I can say, without impunity, the adults tend to be WAY more mature than the younger set. Dunno. Maybe it is my perception?

I don't know what decade I grew up in. I was born in 1965. So, I guess it would be the 70s. I am not sure what history books I read, and what accounts they provided. Seeminly, I would have read the same ones you did. I would hardly lump the civil rights movement, any anti-war movement, and the anti-establishment groups in with an individual gluing two trays together in a school cafeteria. Just doesn't seem like these groups were fighting the same fight, you know what I mean?

I guess it depends on how you define violent crime. I never saw Columbine like activity before Columbine. I never saw young defendants like I see now, routinely- in the news, in the jails, in the courts. I have never seen the child snatchings, the child murders, like we have seen in the last ten years.

If, as you claim, the teachers don't even have the time to make sure the students are looking up the answers, what makes you think the teachers have the time to write the correct answers down for thier kids? Time is time. I still don't buy the theory, "the teacher takes the heat, the kids gets the pass". It isn't a theory that will take them very far IRL. As you say, you work with children and teens all the time. Certainly, you don't advocate the "well, if the teacher didn't do it for you, you are free to ignore that information".

Finally, it is that double standard. If teens have this 'right' to express their views (of course, I agree), then, adults enjoy that same right. I just don't see all this belittling stuff you are speaking of. Maybe I just read the wrong threads.

[sparks19]

Just want to add that maturity does not always bring common sense or civility. There are many people that are mature but still just as rude. and there are a lot of people that lack common sense even though they are mature.... hence all the stupid warnings they have to put on products lol.

[Cataholic]

Just want to add that maturity does not always bring common sense or civility. There are many people that are mature but still just as rude. and there are a lot of people that lack common sense even though they are mature.... hence all the stupid warnings they have to put on products lol.

While I haven't ever really thought about it before, you are exactly right. Good point.

And, then, there is the definition of maturity, in general. One can be the absolute most mature 10 year old on the planet, but, that isn't really the same as saying the 26 year old in the next room, also mature, is on the same plane as the 10 year old. (I purposely picked 26 for YOU, Sparks19, LOL).

[sparks19]

While I haven't ever really thought about it before, you are exactly right. Good point.

And, then, there is the definition of maturity, in general. One can be the absolute most mature 10 year old on the planet, but, that isn't really the same as saying the 26 year old in the next room, also mature, is on the same plane as the 10 year old. (I purposely picked 26 for YOU, Sparks19, LOL).

LOL thanks... I feel so special

and yes I agree. I really don't think a 10 year old is ever as mature as someone twice or three times their age.... I think the appropriate statement is that the 10 year old is very mature for their age....

[Alysser]

Not knowing you personally, I have no idea what decade you grew up in. However, many people in my parent's generation started a profound lack of disrespect for authority. Or did you read a different history about the 1960's? Since when did people then have a respect for most kinds of authority? Some of it was for good reason- consider the civil rights movement, for example. Some of it was fashion, popular culture, the throws of youth, whatever you want to call it with phrases like "don't trust anyone over 30." There were mass demonstrations, riots, and any number of events that could be considered "disrespectful." I fail to see how today's youth is more "disrespectful" than that.

As for less violent crime, look here: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm, you will see that most kinds of violent crime peaked in the early 1990's. Not only was there more crime then- and it has more or less steadily declined- but we have a higher population now. And sex education is a good thing, lowered teen pregnancies show that providing teens with information that actually works- not just using the same half- information that their parents learned.



You are assuming that 1) teachers have the time to make sure their students actually look this stuff up and 2) students will continue learning the material after their test is over. Many current educational laws (i.e. No Child Left Behind) encourage schools to teach to the test- they have to in order to get funding. Therefore, whether or not a student learns the information or not is irrelevant to getting funding. Only rote memorization is required. I'm certainly not advocating this, in fact I think it's setting our education further behind the developed world. However, providing students with an answer is certainly more helpful then just telling them it's wrong.



Of course I think there should be accountability. But telling the kid he can't attend his graduation ceremony is kind of arbitrary. Why not make him work in the cafeteria to pay for the damage, for example- a lesson that is directly related to the crime, something that can actually teach a lesson instead of playing some kind of power struggle. I'm sure the kid isn't suffering because he can't go- most likely his parents are more upset than him.

My remark about teens was that people are simultaneously telling teens to "grow up" and then remarking on how immature they are. How are they supposed to do that if they have constant reminders about how unworthy they are? I see people on this site belittle younger members all the time, and often dismiss their viewpoints because they are still in high school. In my experience, age does not equal wisdom. I work with children and teens, and often times I see more "common sense" in them then I ever see in other adults.

Besides, if adults have so much more wisdom and propriety than teens, why are they making petty comments that I see all the time? Why would they even feel the need to say how much smarter and world-wise they are; you would think that would be self-evident. Even subtle remarks like "tell me what you think in 10 years" are condescending jabs that are completely ridiculous. It really annoys me that people assume someone else will feel the same as they do just due to the passing of time. We all have our own unique experiences that allow us to have unique opinions. Teens should be allowed to express their views without criticism like that.

I completely agree 100%. Cataholic, I wasn't exactly talking about this thread, with teen bashing, some of it yes, but more like past threads I have seen. It's not only the bashing, it's also blaming. Sorry if I didn't make it clear. For example, when a troll comes on PT and someone post "I can't wait till kids go back to school". That annoys me more then anything. People who say that seem to forget about teenagers on here, who have done nothing wrong yet they are still being blamed because we are kids and are in school.

I often write a long and drawn-out reply about my opinion on a thread, and I usually wind up deleting because my opinion is different from all the other adults, and I'm afraid of being ridiculed. I know, it does sound stupid, even to me but it's the honest truth. Most adults, at least around here, think kids/teens are stupid and disrespectful. Me and my friends are often judged by the way we dress, because we wear band shirts to the mall all adults look at us weird or avoid us. It's as if we're going to hurt them, when in reality we would never do anything.

sorry for the long rambling...there is plenty more I could say but I don't have the energy right now.