Bush speech

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud
Like some 19 yr old kid from Iowa would know the difference.
Right.

There is more spin in that sentence that the crankshaft of the bike Armstrong will ride on saturday.

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Liz,

You support the troops yet you make a disparaging remark about the common sense of a 19 year old.

If I was 19, from Iowa and serving the country I'd have an issue with that statement.....

I like to think I have street sense, but I'd be damned if I'd go against some kid fresh outta boot.
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I recently read about a 50 something year old man who was going back to Iraq to train the FNGs.......

NG stands for "new guy" use you imagination for the EFF.....

Why? Because he wanted to make sure that there was someone there to show them "the way".

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Lady z....

And what about the soldiers that are rebuilding the schools and the infrastructure of the country,

We surely can't waste time with that topic, can we.?

I posted a thread about soldiers that we given school supplies to pass out for the kids....The gist of the story was a German gent who remembered the American soldiers who came thru town after the war.....IF I remember correctly he was given a bar of chocolate..

He came to the US, became a citizen and donated quite a few dollars to that charity......some 50 years after being treated with the kindness of one anonymous soldier.


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We have freedom of speech here in this country...and we use to malign, disrespect and provoke each other into two different camps.

And while we are arguing about the tents, stoves and sleeping bags, we ignore the bears waiting for us to go back to sleep again.

Choose your words wisely, they are harder to fit back into your mouth once they are out.....

Of course you can always say...."I was misqouted......"

[Lady's Human]

I've posted this URL in similar threads before, Here we go again......


http://www.goodnewsiraq.com

The news CNN fox, et al would prefer you didn't know.

[RICHARD]

talk about spin!!!

Apologies to you LH...It was your thread....

I responded to it......But I never forgot...


Sorry.

[lady_zana]

Originally posted by RICHARD

Choose your words wisely, they are harder to fit back into your mouth once they are out.....

Of course you can always say...."I was misqouted......"

I always stand by way I say. If I'm proved wrong, I'll admit it. However, like I said, everything I said was my opinion just as you are allowed your opinion.

As for rape rooms, they aren't exactly 'rooms' in every case. They are incidents like the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. It happens in every war, even if it is not reported on the news.

I had a cousin in Iraq; I'm not ignorant of what is going on. I sat in class next to two boys that I never saw again. I hope they were not killed but I will probably never know for sure. Do I support this war? No and I never will.

Despite what you say, Michael Moore's film is spin. Everything is spin; you have to chose what you want to believe and find the truth in what you can.

This message board is getting heated. I don't wish to start a fight with anyone. I don't believe I will be returning to this board because I don't want to fight. I have anxiety disorder and heated debates make me nervous.

Good luck to you all and be thankful we can all argue without fear of repercussions.

[K9soul]

Originally posted by lady_zana
This message board is getting heated. I don't wish to start a fight with anyone. I don't believe I will be returning to this board because I don't want to fight. I have anxiety disorder and heated debates make me nervous.

Lady_zana, I just wanted you to know you aren't alone in that. I suffer anxiety as well and it's one reason I read but don't comment much in this part of the board (Dog House). I'd be an anxious wreck, unable to sleep or concentrate on anything if I were to get into a big argument. I just wanted you to know I understand where you are coming from completely, and I sincerely hope you won't leave the board.

And, as a general statement: My feeling is everyone has different beliefs and perceptions and I think we should always try to respect that and not blatantly say "you are wrong" but more along the lines of "that's not how I see it" or simply "I disagree." I appreciate the insights on both sides in this thread but I feel uneasy when it starts seeming on a more personal level.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lady_zana

As for rape rooms, they aren't exactly 'rooms' in every case. They are incidents like the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. It happens in every war, even if it is not reported on the news.

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This message board is getting heated. I don't wish to start a fight with anyone. I don't believe I will be returning to this board because I don't want to fight. I have anxiety disorder and heated debates make me nervous.

Good luck to you all and be thankful we can all argue without fear of repercussions.

Yes and it's usually the bad guys that are pulling that kind of crap.

Look around for the video that showed saddam's punks pushing people off of roofs. with their hands tied behind their backs....

MY favorite?

Placing men's hands across two bricks and having someone break the arm with a blow across the forearm....

And if you really are squeamish there was the huge pair of shears used to cut the tongue out of a man's head.

But I digress.........

I don't take things personally......I enjoy a good discussion..

Some people, with who I have had some of the most energetic conversations here in the Dog House, are able to put aside the 'HEAT' when we post in other sections of PT....

And I do admire them for that....for that shows they respect my POV and I respect theirs even more.

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MY whole point is that when you make an accusation you have to have good evidence to back it up.

Yes, some soldiers have screwed up and treated prisoners badly..

But where is the indignation when contractors, humanitarians and innocent people, there to help the Iraqis, are beheaded on tape...and then the tape is show all across the planet?

They get a pass and we suffer more because we are supposed to be the good guys????

Nope, it's all spin....and then you get the wash out and hang it up for everyone to see.

[Lady's Human]

ANYONE in the US military raping or otherwise abusing people is going to get what's coming to them when the light shines on their actions. It's a simple rule of thumb.........criminals are basically stupid, if they were smart they probably wouldn't be criminals in the first place (Over simplification, I know, but it's a nice conversation piece).

Look at Abu Ghirab......If they were smart they wouldn't have been taking pics of what they were doing. Abu Ghirab was an anomaly, and while it was inexcusable (and the people responsible have been punished) it in no way rose to the level of killing innocent civilians.

As far as the discussion getting heated, If you are going to accuse US Soldiers, sailors and airmen of violating basic rules of conduct with blanket accusations like "it happens in every war" and other trite lines, you're damned right it's going to get heated, and it will get heated in a hurry.

[Edwina's Secretary]

"US and Iraqi military officers are backing away from previous claims that suicide operations are the exclusive preserve of foreign jihadis." Quote from Time magazine this week.

I would be shocked....absolutely shocked...to think anyone in the military had "misspoken" about the reality of Iraqi...

Why was a hardliner elected in Iran? They are afraid that a US invasion will be unending....like the one in Iraq. If we are so loved by the Iraqis....why did Rumsfeld say it might take 12 years to get out???? Must be going to build alot of schools....

And are you deeply offended that the vice-president of this countries called those of us who disagree...unpatriotic? cowards? appeasers?

Or are you only offended by name calling when it is someone with whom you disagree?






I support our soldiers. Bring them all home now!

[Lady's Human]

Remember, it took a lot more than a year or two to stabilize Germany after WW2. GI's were dying in incidents and encounters with partisans on a fairly steady basis, but the media had little to no access to what was ocurring in the country as the military censored all news reports. This was happening in a country that had NO outside funding coming in for the partisans, and the borders were secure.

The Iranians elected a hardliner mainly for one reason......all candidates who were not hardliners who stood a chance had their candidacy ended by the current government. Iran DOES NOT have open elections, they have approved candidates.

I think name calling in the political arena by ANYONE is juvenile and assinine. If you can't talk about something without resorting to it, maybe you need to go update your vocabulary. That having been said, however, there are representatives in congress who truly deserve that title. The rep who called for ending funding for the military until the military pulls out of Iraq deserves to have HIS funding cut off.

Name calling, however irritating it may be, is not offensive to me. However, the unproven and unbacked allegations of US Soldiers raping Iraqis are offensive.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sorry...but the Germany/Iraq analogy doesn't work. We defeated Germany.... we claim to have liberated Iraq.

Big difference.....

[Lady's Human]

Actually, if you read the literature of the time, we were involved in liberating the German populace then as well.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Actually.... I have read the literature of the time....

Actually....I have a whole library about the time which I have read...

Actually....Germany declared war on the United States. Germany...and it allies (Japan and Italy) were the aggressors in that war.

Actually....we liberated France, we liberated Belgium, we liberated Holland.

Actually....Iraq did not declare war on the US (and please...not the tired old GWB trick of blaming 9/11 on Iraq....)

Actually.... your analogy doesn't hold.

[lizbud]

Guess what? I've actually read the literature of that time myself.
I really like reading history. I enjoy it actually.

[Lady's Human]

No, Iraq did not declare war on the United States. The war could have easily been avoided, however, if Saddam Hussein had just allowed the UN weapons inspections team the unfettered access that they were supposed to have under the cease fire agreement after desert storm.

Saddam Hussein was, however, acting against the US and Britain by continuously firing at aircraft enforcing the no fly zone (also a part of the Gulf War Cease fire)

He was also acting aginst US interests by financing various terrorist groups, and was very open about his actions in that arena.


Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that is the US had invaded Nazi Germany prior to Pearl harbor you would have been out in the streets protesting FDR's unjust war? After all, Herr schickelgruber had taken no overt action against the US.

[Lady's Human]

BTW, the German day marking the surrender at the end of WW2 is officially called "liberation day"