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**Chinadoll** · 11-20-2002, 03:21 PM

No offense meant...but from this American...please don't lump us all together as ignorant...while I love this country there are vast differences among us.

Also...unless it is some kind of scientific study(even then you have error) any survey from any media source is completely BIASED. Studies like that infuriate me. You have no idea the type of people they asked to participate, if it was voluntary, if they targeted people from uneducated backgrounds to participate to get the results they wanted...the list goes on and on. None of those surveys on any kind of media mean anything because there is an extreme margin of error in their testing and the subjects they choose.

And another note...I would never say this country(United States) is the best. There are many places I'd love to visit that I believe to be beautiful countries. To say any one country is best is extreme.

**Soledad** · 11-20-2002, 03:25 PM

She is an American, by the way.

I don't agree that studies done by media sources are immediately biased, as they contract out market research companies to conduct them, who are obliged to adhere to certain rules. However, how they use the results can be misleading.

They did a study here in NZ that said that most NZ kids couldn't locate NZ on a map. It doesn't mean they're stupid, just means their perspective is flawed. I would say that most Americans (myself included) are truly geographical novices. But to me, knowing where somewhere is doesn't make you smart. Knowledge is nice, but not a measure of intelligence. Your ability to reason, analyse, etc. is what makes someone truly intelligent.

**NoahsMommy** · 11-20-2002, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by popcornbird
Talk about ignorance. I can locate almost ANY country on a map

I was under the impression that you lived in America. Is that not true?

**Chinadoll** · 11-20-2002, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Soledad
She is an American, by the way.

I don't agree that studies done by media sources are immediately biased, as they contract out market research companies to conduct them, who are obliged to adhere to certain rules. However, how they use the results can be misleading.

They did a study here in NZ that said that most NZ kids couldn't locate NZ on a map. It doesn't mean they're stupid, just means their perspective is flawed. I would say that most Americans (myself included) are truly geographical novices.

Ok, but the way she worded it sounded like she was stereotyping all Americans which irked me a tad.

But to me, knowing where somewhere is doesn't make you smart. Knowledge is nice, but not a measure of intelligence. Your ability to reason, analyse, etc. is what makes someone truly intelligent.

Very eloquently put. I agree completely.

**NoahsMommy** · 11-20-2002, 03:55 PM

Have you ever taken a statistics class? People can sway either participants or numbers to get the results you want. Most people I know, know where other countries, cities, states, etc are. You need to also take into account that we learn this stuff when we are in 6th grade...

I've done many papers where I can make points by "creatively" citing facts that apply to what I'm talking about. Just as long as you cite it...

In a speech class I took, you are required to debate an issue for ten minutes on the opposite of what you believe. We are required to find facts that state the OPPOSITE of what we believe to be true...

There was a show that used to be on regarding how "stupid" the general public was. I would imagine the reason for this show was that "educated" people would find it funny to see others that didn't know things that were considered general knowledge.

**Chinadoll** · 11-20-2002, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by popcornbird
Chinadoll, this is coming from an American too. I am American by birth. I don't mean to bash Americans or anyone but that report is sad. I don't think it could be a biased report because its on CNN. If it was on some other News agency, particularly a foreign one, I could take it as "biased," but on CNN, I don't know. If this can be a biased report, well then, anything else on the news can be biased as well. My point was that with people not even knowing where countries are, it is ignorance to believe everything on the media and everything you hear about certain countries when you don't have a clue about them.

Noah's Mommy, yes I do live in America. Again, that report doesn't imply to all Americans, but it implies to a great majority. Its very sad. Looks like either teachers are not doing their job right, or students have no willingness in learning and ignore the teacher when he/she is teaching.

I believe any media source/news report is biased. How biased it may be is the question. How a reporter presents the material, the tone in which they deliver it, even the style of website they use can all effect the message that is being delivered. This is not to say that all media is bad and you shouldn't believe any of it...but I do think it's hard to keep human reactions and emotions completely out of the message you're delivering. Why do I keep debating this..well, I'm a Communications major and we loved to debate this topic in classes...not that that makes me more knowledgable than others in this area...it's just where I'm coming from.

I will not believe that study represents all of America. For me to believe that I'd have to study the criteria of how they researched and surveyed for me to be satisfied. To do a study to represent all of America would take a huge sample population and many hours to try to get an unbiased study accomplished.

One reason I think that some Americans(I won't say all, and I'm not trying to stereotype...just hypothisizing) are not very knowledgable about world affairs is that we're very insulated from it all. Many other countries are smaller and much closer to their neighboring countries than the US is. The closer they are, I believe the more concerned they are about the other country's politics.

I'm at work and trying to type fast, so I hope this makes sense. Sorry for the spelling mistakes and perhaps jumbled thinking. My mind works faster than my hands can type.

edited: meant to say not very knowledgable

**Soledad** · 11-20-2002, 04:18 PM

Chinadoll -

I agree with most of your points. But the reason why CNN polls get credit is because they use market research firms to do the research. Now, how they report it can be totally skewered, but the research companies will basically lose out on a ton of business if they're found out to be fraudulent (my husband works in market research).

Let's say that the study met all your requirements (sample size, etc.) and the result was the same or similar? Then what? Personally, I think it's pointless to quibble about the numbers of this particular result as it's been a study that has been conducted before with similar results. I think you have to prepare yourself for the fact that that is most likely an accurate result, in which case your point about America being relatively isolated, etc. is quite a valid excuse.

Most Americans might not know where Uzbekistan is, but they have A LOT of geographical knowledge about individual states and cities within the US. People from other countries often forget this fact.

I'm interested to know, since you studied communications, if you believe media outlets are biased according to their sponsors?

**Chinadoll** · 11-20-2002, 04:28 PM

I'm interested to know, since you studied communications, if you believe media outlets are biased according to their sponsors?

Yes. I remember discussing in class stories pulled from the news because it upset the parent company. Ads that were not used in magazines/newspapers because it conflicted with another ad source that brought in more money. Sometimes it all comes down to who has the most money. When different media sources are relying on ad income to support them, it is very hard to not be biased in favor of the sponsers. You are in conflict with wating to present an unbiased news source and wanting to remain in operation.

**Soledad** · 11-20-2002, 04:32 PM

I find that frightening. Have you done a lot of reading on the topic? It's unbelievable just how much corporate America gets away with, and scary how much of a relationship those corporations have with the government.

**Soledad** · 11-20-2002, 04:41 PM

You're a very smart girl. A very insightful post, Popcornbird.

**Cataholic** · 11-20-2002, 06:47 PM

Ok, gag reflex in check now, I will be the first to admit I don't know where the heck most countries are in the world, or what their political structure is. I am not a firm believer in rote memorization, and surely, if someone is claiming some knowledge of a country because they know where it is located on map, that person is missing something.

We all know people with enough letters behind their name to start their own alphabet, yet, they can't get from point A to point B without someone holding their hand. Then, we know high school dropouts that can do math calculations faster than I can whip out my palm pilot and use the calculator.

The irony of this conversation- which has somehow grown to strange porportions, is that the very idea of intelligence that is being slung here...is sooooooo WESTERNIZED!!!!! When a good portion of the world's population is illiterate, I am confused how our definition of intelligence, knowledge, whatever, even matters? Especially to the ones here going on about how smart they are cause they know where every country is.

If the choice is intelligence or experience- I will sign up for experience..and this comes from someone with a doctorate. But, big whoop. If you don't have the experience as the stage for your education, you are living in a vacuum- either here, in India, Timbucktoo (how ever one spells it).

**aly** · 11-20-2002, 10:31 PM

Can this argument be settled now? Of course we will not agree on everything but I think we all agree on the fact that we love and cherish our pets so lets focus on that. Mugsy meant for this to be a positive thread, and its turned into something very negative that I did not enjoy reading.

I hope no one takes offense because I'm honestly not trying to point fingers at anyone. I just want to be able to come to Pet Talk after a stressful day and be able to calm down, not get more stressed.

**Chinadoll** · 11-21-2002, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by aly
Can this argument be settled now? Of course we will not agree on everything but I think we all agree on the fact that we love and cherish our pets so lets focus on that. Mugsy meant for this to be a positive thread, and its turned into something very negative that I did not enjoy reading.

I hope no one takes offense because I'm honestly not trying to point fingers at anyone. I just want to be able to come to Pet Talk after a stressful day and be able to calm down, not get more stressed.

No offense meant back...but I didn't think some of us were arguing...just debating. And if you weren't enjoying reading the thread....then why didn't you just stop reading?

**aly** · 11-21-2002, 01:50 PM

I could have stopped reading, but when people argue on one thread, their hostility dribbles over to other threads anyway. No, not everyone was arguing but some people were.

I just remember a time when it was a lot more positive around here and would like to see it get back that way.

**sasvermont** · 11-21-2002, 02:26 PM

"I just remember a time when it was a lot more positive around here and would like to see it get back that way"......

Sas

I see nothing wrong with debates about wars etc. - just doesn't seem to fit with the original subject of the thread! Very similar to the thread about childhood....and then it went to the negative... oh well, that does happen.

I shall try to keep to the topics and post related to pets....that seems to be easy for most of us, yes? Oh how we do love them all so!

I learned a long time ago not to debate/discuss politics, religion or family! It always leads to a fight. I still do it though! LOL!