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[wombat2u2004]

Ok Wombat... what to you consititutes premeditated attempted murder or kidnapping for that matter? What kind of proof do you need to suggest that it was premeditated attempted murder?

Actually I can't say I have EVER just punched someone out or assaulted someone. I have NEVER started a fight in my life. I may have finished a few but I NEVER threw the first punch. lol. I'm just not of the frame of mind that anyone that just wants to start a fight with me is worth breaking a bone or getting a record over. I will always talk first... sometimes that works and gives the person enough time to think this might not be a good idea. other times I talk and wait for them to throw the first punch.... my punch after that becomes self defense

Driving 900 miles to assault someone, TO ME, is not just petty assault..... that shows A LOT of premeditation. The woman in that car feared for her life and even though she couldn't really see she managed to get her car into gear and get some help. AGAIN, I am willing to concede the attempted murder thing.... but petty assault? not so much IMO.

If I drove 900 miles.... put on a disguise and stalked someone.... followed them to their car and then assaulted them.... I would not get a petty assault charge lol

P.S- YOu shouldn't have been angry at that guy for "stealing" your g/f.... you should have been angry at your g/f for being too cowardly to tell you she was leaving. No one truly "steals" a b/f or g/f from you.... it is just that the b/f or g/f was a coward and didn't want to tell you right away that they wanted out.

Murder ??? Oh my God Sparky. She probably just wanted to confront her adversery.
Now about this 900 mile thing, the real point here is..."Would a rational person in this situation do what she did ???" I think not. This woman has had a breakdown, and a very serious one at that, and that has caused her to become irrational.
It's interesting.....I phoned my daughter last night, and discussed this particular case with her. For the record, my daughter is a forensic psychologist, and she sorts out people like this on a daily basis. According to my daughter, we have these little chemicals in our brain that sometimes go out of whack, it's called a chemical inbalance. I'm sure I won't have to give you a lecture about the causes of that or it's consequences....you know what I'm talking about. But the true crux of the matter is that it happens more markedly, and it's affects are more obvious, in those people who are under a great deal of stress and anxiety. Now this lady has been through a marriage breakup...yes ??? And I'm sure this lady has not achieved what she has in life by being plain old lazy, or being stupid. Her particular career would have it's fair share of stress.... the load on her must be very great. I believe that this woman has already shown the world what kind of responsible and intelligent person she is.
Her actions, are completely out of character with who she really is.
This is what happens when emotion overides logic.
Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

Wombat, I don't think this kid has lived long enough to realise how
adults think. To live a life and never need forgiveness. How extraordinary.

I know Lizbud.....but we have to teach teach teach...LOL
Wom

[sparks19]

Murder ??? Oh my God Sparky. She probably just wanted to confront her adversery.
Now about this 900 mile thing, the real point here is..."Would a rational person in this situation do what she did ???" I think not. This woman has had a breakdown, and a very serious one at that, and that has caused her to become irrational.
It's interesting.....I phoned my daughter last night, and discussed this particular case with her. For the record, my daughter is a forensic psychologist, and she sorts out people like this on a daily basis. According to my daughter, we have these little chemicals in our brain that sometimes go out of whack, it's called a chemical inbalance. I'm sure I won't have to give you a lecture about the causes of that or it's consequences....you know what I'm talking about. But the true crux of the matter is that it happens more markedly, and it's affects are more obvious, in those people who are under a great deal of stress and anxiety. Now this lady has been through a marriage breakup...yes ??? And I'm sure this lady has not achieved what she has in life by being plain old lazy, or being stupid. Her particular career would have it's fair share of stress.... the load on her must be very great. I believe that this woman has already shown the world what kind of responsible and intelligent person she is.
Her actions, are completely out of character with who she really is.
This is what happens when emotion overides logic.
Wombat

Well I didn't read anywhere that her marriage was ending but if it was... it might have something to do with her fooling around with other men.... maybe??!!

Lots of people are under stress and anxiety... it does not excuse that type of behaviour. and JUST for the record... no one accused her of being stupid... many people that hatch these kinds of plans are very very smart. hey serial killers are often geniuses. now I am not comparing her to a serial killer but it does not take a stupid person to commit a crime or to have a pre meditated plan. But I am just not willing to say... well she was under a lot of stress so lets just allow her to stalk and assault women. Emotion can be a powerful thing.... but everyone else seems to be able to keep theirs in check without hurting people. Those who cannot control their emotions need to face the consequences. So they just chalk it up to emotions and "imbalance" so what happens the next time she has a dillusion and her emotions and stress take her over? Should we just say "ohhh poor baby... have a lollipop" I don't think so.

[wombat2u2004]

Sparks19 wrote ""Ok Wombat... what to you consititutes premeditated attempted murder or kidnapping for that matter? What kind of proof do you need to suggest that it was premeditated attempted murder?"

I cite the following extract from the casenotes.
People v Moore (Court of Appeal of the State of California. Case No.C036773)
"To constitute willful, deliberate, and premeditated attempted murder, the would-be slayer must weigh and consider the question of killing and the reasons for and against such a choice and, having in mind the consequences, decides to kill and makes a direct but ineffectual act to kill another human being"

Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

Well I didn't read anywhere that her marriage was ending but if it was... it might have something to do with her fooling around with other men.... maybe??!!

Lots of people are under stress and anxiety... it does not excuse that type of behaviour. and JUST for the record... no one accused her of being stupid... many people that hatch these kinds of plans are very very smart. hey serial killers are often geniuses. now I am not comparing her to a serial killer but it does not take a stupid person to commit a crime or to have a pre meditated plan. But I am just not willing to say... well she was under a lot of stress so lets just allow her to stalk and assault women. Emotion can be a powerful thing.... but everyone else seems to be able to keep theirs in check without hurting people. Those who cannot control their emotions need to face the consequences. So they just chalk it up to emotions and "imbalance" so what happens the next time she has a dillusion and her emotions and stress take her over? Should we just say "ohhh poor baby... have a lollipop" I don't think so.

But Sparksy....I'm not excusing her behaviour. I believe she deserves whatever the law throws at her for her crime.
Edwinas Secretary hit the nail on the head a couple of posts ago, by stating that she is to be tried by a court of law....I couldn't agree more !!!!
But what I DON'T agree with, is all this hype about murder....premediated or whatever. These charges have been cooked up by public prosecutors, because that is what public prosecutors do !!!!! And to have someone on the stand who has some sort of standing in the community is nothing else but an added opportunity to them to show the world that they can do their job. They have made an absolute spectacle out of this lady. They are accusing her of all kinds of goodies, as I have stated previously, out of all kinds of so called circumstantial evidence. This has all been blown up way out of proportion.
"" Hey look people....we have a new witch this week....she has been caught with a few herbs in her hip pocket....lets burn her !!!"" "" On second thoughts, she's the governors wife, lets make a spectacle of her first, and then burn her. ""
Geez.......give the poor girl a break....she's been thru enough....she hasn't done even near what she has been accused of.
Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

"""ohhh poor baby... have a lollipop" I don't think so."""
Perhaps a few coloured beads ??? LOL
Wom

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES,

There's a difference between the Marines who were charged for what happened at Haditha and what has happened with Cpt. Nowak.

CPT Nowak was apprehended immediately after assaulting someone in a parking lot. There are no major differences in the reports of what happened, and the majority of information in the stories about it came from a press conference with the sheriff's department.

The Haditha incident, however, was reported and investigated months after it happened, and was based on information from people who have no reason to give positive information about US forces actions in Iraq. The Press and some in Congress were pushing for indictments before the official investigation (which was ongoing at the time the story broke) was completed, as in before the facts of the case were known. While the subsequent investigation has shown that indeed there were murders committed, the pressure from the press and Congress almost guaranteed a conviction before the evidence had even been reviewed. Those Marines would have likely been convicted of SOMETHING regardless of the facts in the case. If they had been acquitted of all charges, even if the investigation had shown they did nothing wrong, there would have been hell to pay.

Comparing what CPT Nowak did with the Haditha murders is comparing apples to oranges, especially when you consider the convoluted nature of the military justice system.

So....in her case...no presumption of innocence? I thought everybody gets that...apples and oranges?

[Lady's Human]

Presumption of innocence takes on a slightly different meaning when one is arrested immediately after the fact.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Presumption of innocence takes on a slightly different meaning when one is arrested immediately after the fact.

So she doesn't get the full protection of the constitution? Ouch! I didn't realize that....

How long after the fact does one need to be arrested in order to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise?

[wombat2u2004]

She is presumed innocent until she is found guilty by a court of law.
Every single one of us in the same situation would have a presumption of innocence.
It's the negating of the presumption for bail that is the reason why she is locked up. And that only came into effect when the public prosecutors laid the additional charge of attempted murder against her. The public prosecuters know of this, so thats why they have laid those additional charges. Why would they want to lock her up ???? She has a family, children, she has never offended before....and I'm certain that she would never have overstepped her original bail conditions. Is she a danger to the public ???? Or her so called victim ??? I don't believe so. I believe that woman is very remorseful, and has realised exactly what she has done, and is paying already with her soul big time. Her life from that moment on is probably in ruins......lets just convict her of what she has actually done...assault, and be on our way.
Wombat

[Lady's Human]

The main objection that seems to be being raised is the tone of the discussion surrounding CPT Nowak.

I objected to the tone of the discussion of the marines at Haditha because the case was not clear, facts were at best fuzzy, the military investigation was ongoing, and the press and Congress already had them tried and convicted.

I have no objection to the tone of the discussion in this case as the case is fairly clear cut, (the assault charges, in the least) and most pertinent facts in the case were released by law enforcement in a press conference shortly after the incident and arrest.

Is she entitled to constitutional protection? Absolutely. Special treatment? No.

[Puckstop31]

The facts ???? Ohhhh......you mean what you read. What the media reported...yes ??? Come on now Puck.....you should know better than that.

Sigh.... I did my best to pick the factoids out of all the spin. I formed an opinion. What else is one to do these days with a heavily biased (in both directions) media?

For your information.....the reason why she has been charged with premeditated first degree murder (but not convicted mind you...just charged) was due to the fact that the public prosecutor did not like what the judge originally doled out to her.....nope....not enough to give her a bail and anklet condition. So they trumped up another charge so that she would be locked up...based on circumstantial evidence mind you.

Oh yeah? And where did you get your information? <poke poke> LOL

It isn't my place, or yours, or anyone else's on this board to condemn anyone on circumstantial evidence.

Sure it is... That whole First Amendment thing. I might be wrong but I can holler it at the top of my lungs.

It's a little thing called BREAKDOWN old mate....I'm pretty sure that most people here know what I am talking about.
Wombat

Fine... She is having a breakdown. That does not excuse her actions. I kinda had a bit of a breakdown a few months ago. You didn't see me out assautling people, even though I REALLY wanted to sometimes.

All I am trying to say is I am sick and tired of all the excuses we make for people anymore. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

[wombat2u2004]

Sigh.... I did my best to pick the factoids out of all the spin. I formed an opinion. What else is one to do these days with a heavily biased (in both directions) media?



Oh yeah? And where did you get your information? <poke poke> LOL




Sure it is... That whole First Amendment thing. I might be wrong but I can holler it at the top of my lungs.



Fine... She is having a breakdown. That does not excuse her actions. I kinda had a bit of a breakdown a few months ago. You didn't see me out assautling people, even though I REALLY wanted to sometimes.

All I am trying to say is I am sick and tired of all the excuses we make for people anymore. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

Ah well.....you have your opinions (and I'm not here to change those), and I have mine.
Wombat

[Edwina's Secretary]

She is not the first military officer to get in a sticky wicket, nor is she the first woman scorned to be accused of some real stupid revenge.

This is big news because she is an astronaut and because she wore a diaper...

I object to the tone that she should not get the same treatment anyone in a sad similar local story would.

She didn't do this "in the line of duty" but as a civilian. She gets to be that too.

[Lady's Human]

If you are in the military on active service, especially if you are an officer, there is no such thing as "off duty". Crimes committed off duty are normally prosecuted by both the military and civilian authorities.