Two stories about medicine that trouble me.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Okay...so you think pain and suffering is noble and romantic.

I think it is pain and suffering.

And I think parents who do what they can to save their child from pain and suffering are noble.

So next time you are in pain...please no aspirin, no medicine, no surgery...just your humility. Rise above your pain and suffering.

And let the child be in pain and suffer for they too can rise through humility and transcend the pain.

No thanks.

[Lobodeb]

Lobodeb, thank you for that honest and informed post. It was brave of you to post that insightful look into your family's private world.

Thank YOU for recognizing that and you're welcome. I don't speak of my brother often because I'm not always sure of the reaction I'll get. I learned the very hard way that people are cruel. I can't tell you the number of fights I got into as a child defending him because someone thought it was funny to make fun of him. I'm not ashamed of him in the slightest. It's more of a way to protect myself and protect him as a human being.

[Pam]

I really wasn't going to come back to this thread because it is one where I didn't see a side where I could throw my support 100%. I did just now read Lobodeb's post and I agree with Twisterdog's post below:

Lobodeb, thank you for that honest and informed post. It was brave of you to post that insightful look into your family's private world.

God bless you Lobodeb and your family as well. No one knows the heartache of turning loved ones over to someone else's care. My mom was faced with that situation with my dad after caring for him after his stroke for many years. We all knew that if she continued on that way we would be burying both of them. We were supportive of whatever she wanted to do. I don't think, until I am in someone's situation, I have the right to judge.

I will say, though, that I do enjoy Richard's posts. He is an intelligent man with a good sense of humor. Sometimes he has injected that humor into threads that were about to boil over and that has been a good thing. Let's all just say that debate is good and that is what this is. Richard please do not feel that you are being ganged up on. Your opinions are respected because they are your own based on your own personal life situations and you have a right to express them here and anywhere as do we all. End of sermon.

[cassiesmom]

He has been beaten and both physically and sexually abused by his caretakers.

Oh, Lobodeb. I'm a nurse and this just breaks my heart. There is no reason - NONE - for caretakers to inflict pain or abuse on the ones for whom they are caring (not that I would call it caring at that stage).

My grandmother's husband lived in several nursing homes for the last years of his life due to a spinal cord injury. He had good caregivers and bad caregivers. When the care was lacking, he developed things like constipation, malnutrition, urinary tract infections and pressure ulcers. When the care was good, his health was also good. I guess part of what these parents are doing is making their daughter physically easier to be cared for, so that she can remain as healthy as possible. I worked in a rehabilitation hospital for almost ten years - it was a heck of a lot of work and there were days when I was less than happy with the people I was caring for - but that never gave me license to do them harm.

[RICHARD]

Okay...so you think pain and suffering is noble and romantic.

THAT WAS UNCALLED FOR..


Imagine that, a Latin/Mexican male that can't sell romance.


Let's do this.

There are many wonderful attempts, thru the Modern Miracles of Science that allow parents and their children to lead fairly normal lives.


Cleft palate? Supernuerary digits? Cranial vault remodel? Nasty nevus?
People get their kids a sugery to help them lead normal lives.

I am not against all surgery, nor am I an advocate for pain and suffering.

I do have some qualms about parents having their kids operated on to insert bone into the legs to make them taller. Hormones because they are to slow to develop.

Designer tastes in parents? Designer kids!
The parents transfer their pain and suffering to their kids who undergo their own P&S.

Individual P&S is individual.
It measures differently from person to person.

My pain may be your party. We will never know about the PA's pain because she can't tell us.

And without her uterus we'll really never know about painful menses.

----------------------------

My basic beef with this whole topic is the fact that people can make very dramatic decisions for people in their care.

Just how much was the surgery for this child gonna benefit her?

The parents?

-------------------

So here is the 64 dollar question!

I know the answer, but let's play anyway.

You stroke out and will be coma for the rest of your days.
You will live on a respirator, in bed.

what's next?

For me, there is not quality of life issue there.

Pull my plug and let someone have my spot.

-------------------------

I guess putting loves notes into the XGF's underwear drawer wasn't romantic? .


P.S.

Pam,

Should I ever open my own cult or sect you will be on the list to sermonize for my followers!


Amen.

[Edwina's Secretary]

There are many wonderful attempts, thru the Modern Miracles of Science that allow parents and their children to lead fairly normal lives.

There is nothing that can be done for this child to live anything CLOSE to a normal life.

Her parents have chosen, in consultation with qualifed medical personnel, to try and make her life as comfortable and painfree as possible.

I believe if I had a child I would walk through the fires of hell (see...even anglos can be dramatic) to prevent my child from pain and suffering.

And that is what her parents are doing.

My family knows what I want in the event I am unable to communicate. This child cannot communicate so her parents must decide for her. What a huge, mind boggling responsibility. I do not believe they made it from anything but the desire to give the best possible quality of life under horrendous circumstances.

[RICHARD]

There is nothing that can be done for this child to live anything CLOSE to a normal life.

(see...even anglos can be dramatic)

Thanks for making my point.


And I always thought that drama was more a democratic trait...

[Lobodeb]

Heavens Special Child

A meeting was held quite far from Earth
It's time again for another birth
Said the Angel to the Lord above
This Special Child will need much love
His progress may seem slow
Accomplishments he may not show
And he'll require extra care
From folks he meets way down there
He may not run, laugh or play
His thoughts may seem quite far away
In many ways he won't adapt
And he'll be known as handicapped
So let's be careful where he's sent
We want his life to be content
Please Lord find the parents who
Will do this Special job for you
They will not realize it right away
The Special role they're asked to play
But with this child sent from above
Comes a richer much stronger love
Soon they'll know the privilege given
In caring for this gift from Heaven
Their precious gift so meek, and mild
He is Heaven's Special Child!



Author Unknown

[Edwina's Secretary]

Yes RICHARD...I am glad you agree with me....the parents in this case are truely selfless HEROS......doing a job they rest of us can barely stand to think about....and doing it the best they can.

[TamanduaGirl]

About May of last year I coded a case where a resident surgeon cut the hepatic artery of a man that was in for a cholecystectomy (gall bladder removal). The guy bled out on the O.R. table.

Hardly an elective surgery my father would be dead if he hadn't had his out.

[RICHARD]

Hardly an elective surgery my father would be dead if he hadn't had his out.

There is a difference between elective and emergency GB surgery.

Some docs will wait for the "itis" to go away and do it as an elective.

[Lobodeb]

There is a difference between elective and emergency GB surgery.

Some docs will wait for the "itis" to go away and do it as an elective.

Or preventative! No one in my family is buried with a gall bladder. I was having pain in the area, but they couldn't find any stones. The doctor said, "well, given your family history, I should just take it out now and spare you the whole ordeal!"

I'm leaving now to go knock on some wood.

[RICHARD]

Or preventative! No one in my family is buried with a gall bladder. I was having pain in the area, but they couldn't find any stones. The doctor said, "well, given your family history, I should just take it out now and spare you the whole ordeal!"

I'm leaving now to go knock on some wood.

Same as elective.


Shave the wood down and make a salad?

Fiber helps!