A Couple of Problems With Our Pack - long post

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Aly, Oh my Gosh you sound like Carrie. ha ha
She must have rubbed off on you. I know I go against all rules by having Daisy sleep with me, no doubt about it and you and Carrie are right, when Daisy first started to sleep with me when I came out of the bathroom she would always be laying up on top of my pillow showing me she was alpha and when I moved her I would get a little growl, not much just a little one, well we got that straightened out and she knows where her place in the bed is now. She stays on her side with her own pillow. Gosh, I sure hope that Carrie doesn't read this post
Jackie

[Dixieland Dancer]

You should NOT feel intimidated by anyone willing to help you do the best for your dogs. While I do not think you need to go to another set of obedience classes for getting your dogs to stop barking, if that is what you want then a good trainer will work with you, not against what your dogs already know. I speak here from experience because I attend classes on a regular basis and have even filled in occassionally in teaching. Even with the same instruction, every person seems to pick up a different flavor of doing the commands. Good trainers recognize this and work with the dogs owner.

With that being said....(thanks for letting me vent) a snowball would have a better chance in hell before I would pay someone $850.00 to help me get a dog to stop barking. Way to pricey and I think you could find someone more reasonable.

Anyway I have a book on training methods and I'll take a shot at relaying what it says about barking.

First there are many different kinds of barking. Barking is often tricky for humans to interpret becasue dogs bark in many situations and emotional states, including fear, distress, desire, and joy. There is spontaneous barking (the dog barks spontaneously when stressed or stimulated).

Next there is Learned barking. Whether they intend to or not, owners often encourage barking. If you reward your dog's vocal response to a "speak" command and then the dog barks repetitively to get the tasty reward even when not commanded, it was learned. Similarly, if your dog's insistent "let me in" bark prompts you to open the door, the dog will learn that barking loudly and long enough will get results. Sometimes, "innocent bystanders" reinforce barking. If your dog barks at the letter carrier who then leaves after dropping off the maik, the dog probably figures it has done a good job of scaring off and intruder.

Another form of barking is the Home-Alone barking. Some dogs bark just because there is nothing else to do. Separation Anxiety can also trigger excessive barking. In this case Barking relieves their stress.

Finally there are the bothersome barkers. Dogs who bark just to hear themselves and for no apparent reason.

In order to curtail problem barking, it is helpful to determine why your dog is barking. Like most dog behavior, barking is typically a symptom of an unsatified need, so determining the cause from a laundry list of possibilities becomes an owner's first major challenge.

Barking is simply a dog's means of communication to it's owner. It may be an attempt to stake out territory, or warn owners of intruders. Since dogs are social animals it could be a symptom of loneliness and an attempt to get attention. A lack of exercise and interaction with humans or other dogs may produce barking, as will boredom when left alone indoors for extended periods of time.

The solution is to teach controlled barking through reward training.

Reward training is especially useful at defusing such situations as a knock on the door, greeting strangers, etc. According to statistics reward training has at least an 85% success rate.

Basically train your dog to speak on cue. This gives you a measure of control over the barking, which is, after all a normal dog behavior. If you put a behavior problem on cue, it becomes an obedience response. It gives you the control over when, and to what extent, your dog barks.

Not only do you teach the speak command but you also need to teach the Shush command. Always treat the desired behavior never reward the unwanted. Never punish the dog for barking. The opposite of reward is not punishment - it's no reward. Be consistent. Have someone over that can help you with the behavior in the house. Gradually working to outside. It takes time to unlearn a behavior so be patient and you should have success before you know it.

Best of Luck!!!!

[ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: Dixieland Dancer ]

[MaxnPeteysMom]

Wow - awesome posts, all.

I'm here to report another minor victory. Hubby and I have each walked the dogs in the last 24 hours - him last night, me this morning. We had them both on their chokes, with a treat in our hands (not to mention baggies and keys - I need about 7 more hands !)

Each time we had them "stay close" (which is our command that means stay within two to four feet of us - not quite as stringent as "heel", but not a "free" walk). They did it. And everytime we saw them getting focused or overly breath - the signs that they are about to lunge at someone and bark their heads off - we said "No bark!", showed them the treat waiting for them, and they didn't make a sound or a move. We said, "Stay close" and they did it - ignoring the passerby.

It's going to take a long time to train them out of this, but after the little glimpse we've had, it's going to be worth every minute!!

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Liz it sounds like you are making very good progress with both of them. Thats great, I think with common sense you can do it on your own without the pricey expert. We have the same trouble with Daisy and Perry, can't walk by any dog or person without them barking and attacking. If we walk one of them they are fine, it's only when we walk them both together. We are working on that, kind of let it go, but it is embarressing when you take them somewhere so trying to take some control. It just takes a lot of repetition and time.
Jackie

[RachelJ]

Originally posted by MaxnPeteysMom:
<STRONG>We can't walk them apart - at least not at the moment - because they cry and bark even worse when they are apart. We've created monsters! </STRONG>

Yes you can. Remember, you are in charge and they are the ones with the chain collars around their necks.

You take one out and your husband can stay home with the other to deal with his behavior. Inappropriate, aggressive behavior gets a "No" and a quick correction. Don't forget to praise as soon as the inappropriate behavior stops.

Keep up the good work.

[Dixieland Dancer]

I have finished my update above. Sorry you had to get it in two parts. Again Best of luck in solving the problem.

[carrie]

MaxnPeteysMom - Good work! You are doing brilliantly!

Jackie!!!! If I didn't know you I would swear you were winding me up!!! With her own pillow???? PLEASE!!!!!!
Daisy - you have your Mom trained beautifully!

$850 dollars???? I am moving Stateside!!!!

An income like that could give me the lifestyle I have always dreamed of! With Jackie and Don looking after the kids and housing me too...Easy Street here I come!
I charge £30 for an initial meeting at the dog's home and a short walk, car journey and a free run. I then work out a plan, visit again to explain and check the dog is responding as I expected (£10). Any further help is usually planned and priced in advance - I'm doing something wrong here as I am still driving a 10 year old car, don't have holidays and my best wellies are three years old! (I do have a lot of happy dogs around and that is what it is all about!)

[RachelJ]

When Hannah was a puppy I was given a coupon for one free session with a trainer who would come to our house. With Hannah being a very difficult puppy, it wasn't long before I called the number on the paper. After the one hour session, I was quite impressed with the trainer and felt I really wanted to pay her instead of accepting it as a freebie. I almost dropped my checkbook when she said the fee was $200.00. I asked if future sessions would be that price as well. She said, yes. Needless to say we didn't see that trainer again.

[MaxnPeteysMom]

Thanks for the updated post - it's great information. Rachel, you're hilarious - it was my bad. We have walked them separately and it's fine. They do sleep on the bed with us, but they only come on the bed when invited, and when we say "Off" they hop right on down, no questions asked.

Yeah, we thought the price was a bit steep, too! So we'll stick with what we're doing. We've been giving the "No bark" command for over 24 hours now and it's working well, as is the treat-for-no-jumping-and-quiet method.

Can't wait to move into our new place. No buzzers, no doorbell, and the front door is farthest from the place where we'll be hanging out the most, which means no outside noises to set off more barking!

[Stenograsaurus]

Carrie, I think I'm moving to where you are. When I spoke to a trainer about my dog's aggression, the fee was $1,000.00 and she would not guarantee that she could help. I live in a very rural area and she was the only local one around!!!

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Carrie, I would love to have you here.
I told Daisy what you said and she said to tell you she does have me trained but I make her sleep on her own pillow and she doesn't think that is fair.
Jackie

[MaxnPeteysMom]

Just now back from another successful walk. I don't know why this is working all of a sudden, but we're certainly not going to let up until we know it sticks !

[RachelJ]

You got it!