What a surprise ?

[kimlovescats]

Originally posted by Cataholic
Thanks, Micki Mouse. BUT, what I just don't get is why the blasting doesn't get pointed at the source. PIF didn't stir this up...

OK, wait a minute ... I have to post this. I have now seen with my own two eyes, the post in question. Chris posted very nicely and calmly and then PIF started the rudeness and name-calling!


Posted by chrangharris on 01-16-2005 02:05 AM:

When I orginally started this post, I had it in my mind that my adult child was telling me that they were gay. It never crossed my mind that it could be my minor child. If it were my adult child, I would react differently... I have raised that child and it is now their turn to make decisions. Hopefully, the will make wise decisions based on the values and Biblical beliefs Bryan and I raised them with. I would not agree with their decision to be gay or be in a gay relationship but I can no longer control their life.

If it were my minor child who told me they were gay, they would not be allowed to act on that until they were out of my house. I support them, I'm still raising them, they will live by my rules. To me that would be the same as them wanting to do drugs, drink, or even have a member of the opposite sex over, or even something as simple as dressing inappropriately- it will not happen in my house.

Thank you for keeping this as a way of exchanging different opinions and beliefs and not turning this into something mean or hateful.
__________________
Chris



Posted by PayItForward on 01-16-2005 02:31 AM:



You have lead a very shallow life if you think being gay is a decision that people have made.

I want to know when you made the decision to be straight?

At what age did you decide that you wanted to spend the rest of your life with a male ?

The ONLY problem with being gay is having to deal with narrow minded people like you.

Your entire attitude is mean and hateful towards gay people.

I found your question very offensive and it makes me ashamed to be straight.

Your question should not even be an issue who cares if your child is gay, the important things are are they healthy, happy and law abiding.



I rest my case!
Kim

[Prairie Purrs]

Actually, I believe that the thread turned hateful when the comparison was made between being gay and being a drug abuser. That's what got under my skin. I was extremely offended, and I couldn't imagine how hurt gay PT members would be at such slander.

[kimlovescats]

Originally posted by CatsinDenver
Actually, I believe that the thread turned hateful when the comparison was made between being gay and being a drug abuser. That's what got under my skin. I was extremely offended, and I couldn't imagine how hurt gay PT members would be at such slander.

Chris didn't say that the two were equal, she was simply stating the different beliefs (HER beliefs) that she would treat with the same reaction in raising her child.

[Prairie Purrs]

Originally posted by kimlovescats
Chris didn't say that the two were equal, she was simply stating the different beliefs (HER beliefs) that she would treat with the same reaction in raising her child.

Well, I don't want to quibble, but she said that to her they were the same thing. And that comparison was made even earlier in the thread. And I found it highly offensive, and hateful.

People are free to say nasty things based on religion or for any other reason. But when they do, they should expect to be called out on it.

[Cataholic]

AND, to further expand on CID's thoughts, assume, Kim that she DID say what you are suggesting...can't you see the issue with drawing such a comparison? Do these two concepts- drug abuse and homosexuality REALLY belong in the same class? Religion aside, that these two concepts are to be painted with the same brush is bizarre. To me, it suggests bigger problems with the believer than we are addressing here and now.

[Uabassoon]

I generally try to stay away from these threads, but this time I'm going to say something.

I'm always dissapointed when I read these threads at the hateful things "Christians" will say. Mean, hateful remarks. Like I'm going to hell, or I'm compared to a drug user, a child molester or any other sort of bad person, or that I deserve AIDS. Now I'm not saying that I disrespect your opinion. Because I am open minded and I believe that you have a right to think what you want. But the bible I grew up with taught me not to judge others.

For example PCB (sorry to bring you into this) strongly believes that homosexuality is wrong. But I respect her opinion and respect her because she had never said anything mean or hateful or judgeful. She just states why she feels the way that she does, but she's never been hurtful. That to me shows that you understand the teachings of God.

When I look at my girlfriend I don't see someone I just want to have sex with. I don't see something I need (like a drug). I see the most amazing person I've ever met. I see a woman that I want to amaze and make happy. I want to bring her flowers, make her dinners, take her on surprise vacations. Hold her close to me and let her know I love her as much as I could possibly love anyone. I want to grow old and have a family. I want a wedding, I want a house with a white picket fence, I want a dog and cats and 2.5 children.

If I'm evil and I "burn in hell" then a lifetime of love is worth an eternity in hell. But you know what, those of you that judge and are hateful and mean will have to deal with a judgement as well.

Despite everything that has been said, I will still have respect and hope that maybe you worded things wrong. Or maybe you don't understand and didn't mean to be judgemental but you were just trying to state your opinion. I will always try to think the best of people, because that's the way I was brought up.

[Cataholic]

Dearest Laura,
You are twice the person I am. I will never be as accepting and loving as you are. For every hurtful hateful thing said, in the name of God, know that there are ten of me (maybe not as vocal) that gladly call you a friend.

Johanna

[Prairie Purrs]

Originally posted by Cataholic
Dearest Laura,
You are twice the person I am. I will never be as accepting and loving as you are. For every hurtful hateful thing said, in the name of God, know that there are ten of me (maybe not as vocal) that gladly call you a friend.

Johanna

Well said, and seconded.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Uabassoon
But you know what, those of you that judge and are hateful and mean will have to deal with a judgement as well.

So true, Laura.

Originally posted by Cataholic
Dearest Laura,
You are twice the person I am. I will never be as accepting and loving as you are. For every hurtful hateful thing said, in the name of God, know that there are ten of me (maybe not as vocal) that gladly call you a friend.

Johanna

Ditto that!

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by sirrahbed
Her reasons for deleting it - some folks are simply assuming that she did so because "people did not agree with her". She is being discussed in a personal manner and in an angry, superior tone. I am sure you know the old adage that when you assume, you put an ass between u and me. That is what is happening here

I am also being talked about in an angry, superior tone and people are assuming things about me wrongly but I won’t be deleting the threads as I am a strong moral person who believes it is everyone’s right to have an opinion …for right or wrong…about me or anyone else.

-------------------------------

[I]Originally posted by PayItForward
Chrang threw her dummy out of her pram when people who didn't agree with her posted on her nice anti-gay christain post

Originally posted by kimlovescats NASTY as usual, PIF!!!

See my above comment, you are assuming malice where there is none. The smilie at the end of the comment shows I am making a joke, as I find it very amusing when people delete threads when people disagree with them.

The ‘dummy comment’ is English slang which is commonly used in reference to adults who behave in a childish way and deleting a thread for no good reason is childish.

I am interested in the ‘as usual’ part of your comment did I disagree with someone else recently ? This is a genuine question.

Originally posted by catcrazylady
Totally uncalled for PIF!!!

Please see my above comment to Kim.
-------------------------------

Originally posted by catcrazylady
The original thread became "personal" and that is where things started going wrong. It was becoming an attack instead of a debate or opinion sharing. People want respect for their opinions and yet don't want to give the same to others.

This again is assumption, I did not post any attack or get personal at any point, I was enjoying the debate until the thread was deleted.
Like I said to Kim you are assuming malice when I am only disagreeing with some one else’s opinion. I didn’t write it with malice, hence there is none.

The only personal attack on the post came from Catoholic and that was aimed more at ‘Christians who condemn gays’ than a particular person. Shame it was lost as it was a post straight from her heart, an avid Christian herself may I add.
-------------------------------

Originally posted by PayItForward
This is why my forum doesn't allow posters to delete entire thread it prevents posters deleting threads for no reason other than people not agreeing with the original poster.

I got two separate comments about this post

Originally posted by kimlovescats
Then my question is ... why don't you stay on your own forum PIF, instead always coming to PT and getting something started?

I am also confused, owning your own forum does not exclude a member from posting on Pet Talk, as there are dozens of posters with their own forums.

I actually posted this comment to tell the people who are getting fed up with people deleting entire threads, that a solution is possible on this forum.

I run the same software and that is why amendments I make to my site can also be made to this site. I am being pragmatic and offering a solution to a problem, which upset several people.

I have also PM Karen with the actual settings to be altered to only allow people to delete their own posts not the entire thread. Karen & Paul are thinking about applying this amendment, I hope they do.

Originally posted by catcrazylady
Too many statements going on here about what you allow and what you don't allow on your website. This is NOT your website, live by the rules or move on. I understand that you are upset that the original thread got deleted and that is your right but these kinds of statements are just plain nasty and no longer express an opinion. Weather you agree/disagree with any statement made by anyone on this board is your right and that is what keeps the Dog House interesting but personal attacks and slams against this website are uncalled for!

Please see the above comments made to Kim.
-------------------------------

Originally posted by kimlovescats
I know that she didn't start the original thread, but unfortunately she has a long history of being rude here on PT and I for one have had ENOUGH of it!

Another wrong assumation, I have a long history of stating my opinion which is often polar to other people opinions. People have been far ruder to and about me and on occasions have actually lied about me, than I ever have been to others. Unless your definition of rudeness is disagreeing with people, I do not have a history of being rude.
-------------------------------

Originally posted by kimlovescats
OK, wait a minute ... I have to post this. I have now seen with my own two eyes, the post in question. Chris posted very nicely and calmly and then PIF started the rudeness and name-calling!

That is your opinion, I believe Chris started the name calling by writing :=

I think acting out on a person's gay/lesbian desires is sinful.

Hopefully, they will make wise decisions based on the values and Biblical beliefs Bryan and I raised them with. I would not agree with their decision to be gay or be in a gay relationship

Being gay if not going against the bible or having an unwise decision or indeed a decision in many cases.
… that being gay was the same as

To me that would be the same as them wanting to do drugs, drink,

.

I posted my opinion and asked two questions, which have not been answered to date. I did not name call anyone, if you have to revert to calling names rather than putting your opinion forward, you have already lost the debate, that is why I don’t do it.

-------------------------------

Originally posted by Cataholic
Thanks, Micki Mouse. BUT, what I just don't get is why the blasting doesn't get pointed at the source. PIF didn't stir this up...

Thank you to you Cataholic and all the others who PM’d or emailed support to me on this matter.
-------------------------------

Just on Christianity, this part of my post is not aimed at anyone, these are my own personal views on religion.

I was a full member of the Church of England, both baptised and confirmed and very devoted as a young adult, until I was told that gays, blacks and others were not welcome at church. So I decided that such a bigoted church was not part on a true Christian path.

I honestly don’t know what I feel religion wise these days though some times I read my grandma’s bible and yet other days I don’t even think God ever existed, when I see the hate in the world.

But one thing I know to be true that accepting others for who they are no matter what without judgement is such an important part of living as a true Christian.

Going to church does not make a good Christian, neither does saying or thinking you are a Christian or reading the bible.

To be a true Christian, you have to live as the best person you can be, loving and helping your fellow man (and women), be they a drug crazed single mother, a professional gay couple, a Christian person.

Every person on this earth deserves compassion not judgement.

Anything less is not Christian (in my eyes)

[catcrazylady]

Laura, you are an amazing woman! I admire your style and I love how you handled what surely must/could be an emotional post for you.

I have a sincere question for everyone. I wondered about this when the original thread was active. I noticed that Sirrahbed and PCB's comments were basically the same but only Sirrahbed's post was quoted and remarked upon. This makes me wonder if sometimes it's the way things are worded? I'm sure it has nothing to do with Muslim or Christianity does it? Do we feel safer attacking/debating christianity because most of us understand it better? Is it just something as simple as one person being able to express themselves more eloquently?

Don't nail me please! I really am curious.
I would also like to say that I LOVE reading anything PCB writes. I find her to be very mature, kind, and gracious so please know that I am only asking why the different reaction.

[Cataholic]

I will add, in support of PIF's post, I was the one that got personal first..and wasn't clear why people were directing their anger towards PIF, rather than me.

Other than that, I thought the term 'dummy' was the the word for our term- pacifier. I didn't take it to mean 'dummy' as in not smart. BUT, even still, dummy is hardly a major no-no in our language.

[RICHARD]

I didn't go thru the thread in it's entirety so I'll keep this short.

I would suggest a book written by Randy Shilts, The Band Played On.

It's a story about the AIDS epidemic and the people who managed to track down it's origins and the people who pooh poohed the growing illness.

AIDS is a disease of opportunity.

No more, no less.

I could catch AIDS from giving mouth to mouth to an accident victim, getting splashed with blood during a fist fight, using a dirty needle or having sex.

Because it lies dormant for such a long time, the exact point of infection could never be discovered.


Years before it became known as AIDS the medical community
labeled the symptoms as FUO, fever of unknown origin.

Back in the late 70's I worked with a nurse who died of FUO...

Years later I realized that he did have AIDS and even though the medical community didn't know what was going on, It was pretty scary to see someone, anyone waste away in that fashion.

It's not just a gay disease.....It's a people disease.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by Cataholic
I will add, in support of PIF's post, I was the one that got personal first..and wasn't clear why people were directing their anger towards PIF, rather than me.

Other than that, I thought the term 'dummy' was the the word for our term- pacifier. I didn't take it to mean 'dummy' as in not smart. BUT, even still, dummy is hardly a major no-no in our language.

'threw her dummy out of her pram' does refer to a baby's dummy, the plastic toy with soft teat, I did not know of any other meanings.

[Cataholic]

That is what I thought...I re-read your post above, and it seems like you are giving it OUR meaning...not your meaning- of pacifier. So, anyone that thinks what you are saying when you say she threw her dummy out of her pram NEEDS to know it isn't some major slam you are making.

Maybe I am the only one that was confused...not the first time, lol.