Outdoor vs. Indoor

[lhg0962]

There is an ongoing "battle" in the Editorial section of our newspaper about a pack of wild dogs roaming one section of our city. These dogs are killing cats. This morning, a letter to the editor reminded the citizens of our county that cats are subject to the same leash laws as dogs. Has anyone ever determined how to contain a cat outdoors? How ridiculous!!!!

[carrie]

Obviously some people, and a lot of them, do keep their cats permenantly indoors and many in the States are required to do so by law. I can only suggest that animal control agencies are contacted to deal with the feral, or roaming, dog pack.

[Karen]

As for containing a cat outdoors, I know several cats who live in city neighborhoods who are only allowed outdoors on a leash, the same as many dogs. I asked one woman if her cat liked the leash, and she said - "She knows it's the only way she's going outdoors, so she doesn't seem to mind it at all!" She was trained to leash as a kitten.

[4 feline house]

I used to feel that I would rather have my cats live a short, happy life than a long, miserable life. When I realized after several years that I had only one cat survive past 5 years, and all the others died horrible deaths (cars-run over by or mangled up in, poisonings, gunshots, disease, etc.) I began attempting to keep them exclusively inside. Of course, some cats are obsessed and will successfully escape. One of my cats was adopted by a stray, and she darts out after dark occasionally. I try to catch her but can't always. On those nights I sleep on the couch so I can hear her scratch on the door when she returns. I have her three grown kittens (another consequence of roaming cats-reproduction!) and only one of them goes outside - on a harness and leash. He loves his "walkies". I need to make a few comments, though, that I would feel I must make even if I were an outdoor advocate. First of all, to all the people who mentioned "letting their cat get to know the area before they're allowed out unsupervised" - I think y'all are operating on the false assumption that it's dangerous for your cat to roam MAINLY because he may get lost if he doesn't know his way around. In fact, cats NEVER "get lost". They don't return because either they have been carried away, injured too severely to come home, or killed. So letting them "get to know their surroundings" is a useless and dangerous idea. Also, to the people who think they are lessening the risk by only letting their cats out at night - cats are nocturnal. This is their "howling time" and they are much more likely to encounter danger then than in the daytime. They are also harder to see so their chances of getting hit by a car are increased by their invisibility and their mobility at night. Alot of their predators are also nocturnal. Cats who are outdoors during the day are most likely snoozing somewhere. I don't advocate loose cats day or night, but if I were forced to make a choice I would rather have my cats out during the day. After all, we frequently see the unfortunate tragedy of a dead cat on the side of the road on the way TO work in the morning, but seldom if ever on our way home FROM work in the afternoon. And, to add two more cents worth, I think declawing is just as cruel and horrible as letting cats roam. A quick P.S. - alot of members (including me) seem to be from Dallas/Fort Worth! When I lived in Denton, I learned that Denton County had the highest rabies rate of any other county in Texas nearly every year (including this year so far!) This was one of the factors making me convert to indoors only.

[RottieLover]

I saw someone writeing about how o get you'r cat useto the area.... my kittens there almost 2, they where born here so thats not a problem with me.

but when i did live in the city & we moved we put butter on the bottom of ower cats feet... An old English tail doing that, but it worked he {ower older cat hes 17-18 hes a russ. blue mix} came home with no trobel , but then he's been knowin to attack my rottie's lol

just thought I'd add that in ~~

[4 feline house]

Spencer - I agree with everything you say. I agree that an ideal situation would be a secure outdoor enclosure, but that is not possible for most of us. Even if I could afford it, I'm sure my neighbors in my fourplex would find it ugly and my landlord would probably tear it down (especially since he's already miffed at me because I'm allowed to keeps my four cats due to his negligence in not including a no pets clause in the lease!).

Also, your guarded assertion that shots last 3 years is correct. Most laws require rabies every year, but alot of vets (mine included) are now recommending all other shots every 3 years after kitten shots and the first annual booster because it is now becoming clear that the annual shots may increase the chances of a certain kind of malignancy showing up at the inoculation site.

Also, I agree about how feral cats should be handled. I mentioned in one of my earlier posts about having previously lived in Denton. Denton has a large feral cat population, probably because of a lack of any local humane societies and the large transient population. I was involved with a group of people (too informally gathered to be called an organization) who worked to capture, vaccinate, and neuter/alter feral cats and then re-release them. We felt this was the best thing to do since there were no shelters (except the city) and all the foster homes were bursting with overpopulation. Any kittens were taken in to foster homes and eventually neutered/spayed and found homes since they could be tamed. We hoped that we were at least helping to control the population of unwanted cats, if nothing else.

Lastly, I agree that too many times the foster homes are too crowded, but as long as only a precious few of us are willing to help these poor unwanted creatures and as long as the goofus clods out there insist on not neutering/spaying and then allowing their animals to roam or, worse, turning them out and abandoning them, the problem will continue. The way I look at it, we (society collectively, of course) tamed these animals to the point that they can no longer take care of themselves adequately, and their basic instincts now serve to do them harm instead of just merely ensuring the survival of the species, it is up to us to do all we can to take care of them and try to do what we can to cut down on the population in any way. This includes fostering with neutering/spaying as well as educating the public, starting with school-age kids. The problem will probably never go away but some of us feel a duty to do whatever small thing we can. I know I'm preaching to the choir because I remember in some of your previous posts you have mentioned that your people foster, but maybe by posting in a public forum other people will decide to take it upon themselves to help out and more foster homes will open up and then there will be less crowding and more education going on. I get on my soap box for the kitties, Spencer, for all the kitties like you who don't have it so lucky, who don't have people that love them like yours do you!

[4 feline house]

I had a freind who did a lot of rescuing adn fostering who had an outdoor enclosure to die for. It was very sturdy, constructed of 4 by 4's, 2 by 4's and chicken wire. They could get to it through a cat door from the garage. It was very sturdy and ran the length of the garage, about 20 feet, and was about 10 feet wide and about six feet high, and there were platforms of differing heights for the cats that like to perch out of sight. I never had the nerve to ask her how much it cost (since I was raised to believe that sort of question is rude under any circumstance) but I'm sure it wasn't inexpensive. Sadly, she moved to New Mexico to be with her aging, ill mother and had to leave her wonderful outdoor enclosure behind since it had not been built to be portable, and the people who bought her house immediately tore it down.

[Vi Co Bi]

Are any of you familiar with "B Dealers"? I don't know what you call them in the rest of the country, but that's what I've always heard people call the folks who collect "abandoned" pets for sale to processors who used them for experimentation or training other animals (like fighting dogs).

They were a big business here in Atlanta and some were even so bold as to take smaller dogs from their own backyards or runs. And friendly cats were easy prey to these people.

I worked a few raids on these dealers years ago and it was so sickening, so totally nauseating, a couple of times was all I could handle. In one of the raids we found neatly stacked shoeboxes, marked by month, and each shoe box had collars, some with tags, taken from pets we suspect had been sold.

It got even worse when the "dealer" received a fine (light fine, in my opinion - less than $1,000) and was released. I always wondered if anyone called any of the phone numbers on the tags to tell them what had happened to their pet, but I doubt it.



[This message has been edited by Vi Co Bi (edited March 18, 2001).]

[4 feline house]

Even if you give "free to good home" there are things that clue you in to whether or not a person is affiliated with a lab. This is a paraphrase of a call I had on my machine when I had some fosters up for adoption. Keep in mind my ad in the paper did not specify age, color, or sex:

"I saw your ad in the paper for free kittens. I need those kittens. Call my pager at 555-1212"

Clue #1-no inquiry into colors, ages, or sexes available
Clue #2-no name or home phone number given
Clue #3-"needing" the whole litter
Clue #4-taking the whole litter without knowing if that meant 2 or 8 kittens

Spencer-from what I was told in the new employee orientation a few weeks ago, UTSW no longer does animal research (but you know how that goes, that does not necessarily mean it has actually been discontinued). I will try to find out more.

[4 feline house]

It was mentioned in passing. I don't remember the specific topic being discussed, but it ended with "but that was when we still had the animal research lab, since it was closed down this no longer applies". So it could be that there is still some animal experimentation. There is a very large amount of research going on at UTSW, so I would have a hard time believing that there are not at least some white mice on campus.

[Vi Co Bi]

One of the more difficult aspects to keeping your pets indoors is YOU are left having to entertain them. For some pet owners it's easier to just let the cat outside. It takes a lot more work and dedication on the part of the owner to be proactive and not let their pets gets bored.

[This message has been edited by Vi Co Bi (edited March 20, 2001).]

[wolflady]

I'm a little late jumping in on this topic, but I agree that beloved pets should be protected, but provided a good quality of life as well. I personally think an all indoor lifestyle is best, but there have been some cases where the cat absolutely wants to go outside, so I think enclosures are the best idea for that option. That way they can enjoy the great outdoors with less danger. I was always saddened to see poor little kitties trying to huddle together to keep warm when I lived in IN. The weather there is so harsh! I doubt that any cat would "want" to be outside in terrible weather. Most people's "outdoor" cats seemed to live short horrible lives. Not really by their choice either. Here in CA the temps are quite mild, so being an outdoor animal isn't quite as bad weather wise. Here's the scoop on my kitties. My husband and I are owned by 2 DSH cats, both indoor only. A local stray has adopted me as her "foster mom" as I give her food, water, shelter and vaccinations via the stray/feral program. Oh, how I hate leaving her outside(and I can tell she wants in because she's practically glued to my door when I open it in the morning to feed her), but we just can't have another cat inside with our 2 and one has a behavioral problem. As for our 2 indoor cats, Marius came to me as a stray in very poor condition. He has absolutely no desire to go back outside, probably because he associates it with his previous horrible life. He looks out the window, but when we open any doors, he's nowhere to be found(unless Crookshanks, the stray cat, is around). Scooter is the same way. He likes looking out the window, but doesn't find venturing outside to be his thing. We've even attempted to bring them outside on leashes for a brush and walk around, but they just "glue" to the ground, or head back for the door. This is perfectly fine with me, because they have enough stimulation inside to keep them happy. I think indoor cats can be as happy or even moreso than outdoor cats. Although, if someone wants to let their cats outside because they think it's good for them, than that's fine under supervision, and precautions. Outdoor enclosures are a great idea!

[Troy]

Stating that

Most people's "outdoor" cats seemed to live short horrible lives

is complete nonsense.

I understand that in some parts of the world it is simply not safe to allow cats outside due to local laws and attitudes of people but in many parts of the world cats can be allowed outside to enjoy a natural, healthy lifestyle.

All of the cats I have owned have enjoyed long healthy happy lives, all of them living into their teens...

Sorry to sound so belligerant but I do think we often forget that the reasons cats are locked inside is due to the fact they would not be safe outside - and that is due to us, mankind. They would certainly be happier outside because it is in their nature to "explore", climb trees, chase mice and birds, meet and socialise with other cats, and play hide and seek in the bushes. We could argue that it is "safer" for them inside but at some point we must realise that it would be like keeping your child locked inside all their life for fear of something happening to them...there is a trade off at some point and it is important to realise that this varies from place to place. If the dangers to your pet are real then it makes sense to keep them inside; if not then an outside life is ideal.

[4 feline house]

Troy is certainly right, this is a personal decision that has to be based on many things that vary from pet owner to pet owner. In most of urban and suburban America, it is likely that most cats are safer inside. And most danger is created by man, as it is with all the creatures of the earth.

But factors vary within the cats themselves, too. Not all cats are avid hunters, and the fact that they can't chase mice and birds is no great loss. Not all of them climb trees and play hide and seek. And by nature cats are solitary animals, so the fact that they can't meet the neighbors would probably not be a significant matter to them, either. Also, many of these activities can be simulated or experiences indoors - multicat household cats certainly are socialized, and many and varied toys make for good "mouse" chases, and some good furniture, cat or people, can be easily climbed.

Many indoor/outdoor cats live through their teens, and many indoor cats die kittens.

It is a personal decision, and certainly no one's opinion is nonsense for them.

[Logan]

I believe that one reason Butter is with us now (we found his previous owner) is because he can come inside whenever he wants to. I still believe that if traffic is not furious, that mine are ok to come in and out of the house as they please. And believe me, they let me know quickly when it is time to come inside. In fact, they will find the window in the room I am in, no matter where I am, and give me the big "YEOOOOOOW" to let me know its time to open the door! I would be happy for them to stay inside if that is what they preferred, but neither of mine would be very happy. The positive thing is that they mostly hang out in the backyard with the dogs anyway, or next door at my neighbor's house, so I count myself as the lucky one. All I have to do is go to the door and call their name, and both come running....but never at the same time!!!