Who do you blame???

**RICHARD** · 10-02-2003, 07:22 PM

i vote for a 50/50 split.....

it's an unfortunate story and just a set of circumstances that end up in a 'train wreck'..

The only person we cannot place blame on is a two year old kid who's left the planet because the effing adults in her world are too stupid to insure her safety....as it stands now the kid's dead and they may just put the whole lot of dogs into the dirt......

The blame game is good for manual dexterity.....pointing fingers increases your hand strength but does nothing to rectify the situation...

Instead of blaming the breed of dog let's blame the breeding humans who brought a kid into a place where two years was entirely too short a time to spend on the planet.

and what about the twit who left her kid at home for 2 and a half weeks BY HERSELF while 'MOM' cooled her jets in jail????

Some people do not deserve kids, let alone animals.

**joycenalex** · 10-02-2003, 07:24 PM

it is possible to check the dogs' dna to determine which dog/dogs were involved. it is expensive and as slow as checking for human dna. there was a mauling that lead to a death here in columbus ohio and by checking the dna, the police were able to id the dog and arrest the owner for manslaughter here .
this whole thing is just so sad.

**Soledad** · 10-02-2003, 07:31 PM

I think that story about the toddler left alone in that house for weeks was one of the saddest things I've heard. I'm so happy she pulled through.

**Pam** · 10-02-2003, 08:24 PM

Amen Richard. I couldn't agree more. This story has my stomach churning as my little grandson just turned 2. I couldn't imagine either myself or my daughter leaving him out of our sight for one minute and in fact the thought of him being alone for one minute sends chills down my spine. God bless that precious little girl. My heart is breaking.

I was absolutely shocked also to read about the 2 year old being alone for 19 days. I think not only should the little girl be taken away from her stupid mother but the mother should be sterilized! She has proven that she is not mother material. Sorry if this sounds harsh.

**Logan** · 10-02-2003, 08:30 PM

Instead of blaming the breed of dog let's blame the breeding humans who brought a kid into a place where two years was entirely too short a time to spend on the planet.

Amen. Richard.

And Amen again to the fact that the other little girl, whose mother went to jail, even survived to have a chance at life again.

I will admit that I haven't read much and am reacting on what I heard on the news, but when we saw her this morning, both Scott and I got so emotional.

**Twisterdog** · 10-02-2003, 08:47 PM

I would say to everyone here, "Let him without sin cast the first stone." ... or if you're not into Bible quotes, how about, "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones."

Parents: Can you honestly say that you never let your child out of your site for a moment? A quick lapse, a moment when you were distracted? That you never did anything at all, even once, that could have endangered your toddler? I don't believe that any parent on the face of the earth can honestly say, "I was an absolutely perfect parent 100% of the time with every one of my children." Things happen. And the fact of the matter is, that none of us know, from reading that short article, if this mother was one of the flaky ones who takes three hour naps and smokes crack while their kids are running unsupervised up and down the street, or if she was a good mother, who had a momentary lapse of attention. It has happened to all of us, but fortunately, the worst that happens to most of us is a momentary instant of panic and we kick ourselves for the next decade. Perhaps this child was the worst case scenario, sadly.

As for the dog owner, I think that seems a bit more cut and dried. She has been reported and cited before for not taking proper care of her dogs. It seems to be somewhat of a pattern, even before this happened. The most naive and dangerous thing any dog owner can say or think is, "My dog would never bite, would never hurt anyone, ever. He wouldn't hurt a fly." People with this attitude only show that they are naive and ignorant about dogs. Yes, dogs are domesticated animals ... but "animal" is they key word there. They are still animals, still governed by instinct; not reason, thought, morals and laws. An animal may behave a certain way 99% of the time, but there is always that 1%, where he will do something totally off the wall and unexpected, and sometimes dangerous.

And when you get ten dogs together, the pack mentality enters into play. This is something you don't necessarily have to deal with when you own one or two dogs. As anyone who has that many dogs, myself included, can attest - ten dogs together can alter the behavior of every individual dog, compared to how that dog will act alone. If one does not understand dogs and pack behavior well enough to know this, then that person should not own that many dogs.

If you choose to own a pet, any pet, it is your responsibility to make sure it is contained in such a way that it won't hurt or kill someone. This is the law, and it is also morally and ethically correct. If one chooses to own ten large dogs, one needs to make sure that the dogs are contained at all times, cannot escape, and in a yard that no one can reasonably get into. The same goes for a swimming pool, trampoline or construction site ... if you have one, and someone gets hurt because of it, even if they were trespassing, you will be blamed in the eyes of the law, for not making it very difficult/next to impossible for anyone to get near these irresistable nuisances.

I own ten dogs. They are small dogs, the smallest weighs eight pounds and the largest weighs 35 pounds, most weight about 15 pounds. They have never shown aggression towards anyone. Nonetheless, they are contained in a yard that could contain an elephant. There is no way they could get out. I spent thousands of dollars on concrete, privacy fencing, chainlink, etc. to make sure they will not get out. It is my responsibility to the community. I also have all my gates padlocked at all times, to make sure no one gets in. That is my responsibility to small kids, and to my dogs. Owning dogs is not a right, it is a luxury. If one has the luxury to be able to afford to keep, feed, vet and love a dog, one also has the responsibility to make sure that animal is contained and cannot harm.

**Soledad** · 10-02-2003, 08:55 PM

Thank God, Twisterdog, for posting such an intelligent and thoughtful post.

I'm certainly no Christian, but I've always loved Jesus' thoughts on judging others.

**Pam** · 10-02-2003, 09:02 PM

Twisterdog how sad that the owners of the dogs did not take the ownership of 10 dogs as seriously and responsibly as you do. If they did that little girl would most likely still be among us.

I still stand by my statement that I would NEVER leave a child unattended outside, not for a minute! This is a crazy world we are living in now and there is just too much that can happen. That said, I know the mother is heartbroken and will take the anguish of this to her grave and each day live with the "if onlys."

The amazing story for me is the second one where a woman went to jail and did not mention to a soul that she had a 2 year old at home. Thank God the little girl was resourceful enough to find food. That woman should never be allowed to parent again IMHO.

**dukedogsmom** · 10-02-2003, 09:29 PM

I agree. It's the mother's fault.

**Soledad** · 10-03-2003, 12:14 AM

Why does everyone think that the mother being there would have stopped it from happening? The girl was terrified of the dogs, and it is likely that at least one was loose. These are huge animals.

Threads like these remind me how the Salem witch trials began.

**popcornbird** · 10-03-2003, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by Soledad
Why does everyone think that the mother being there would have stopped it from happening? The girl was terrified of the dogs, and it is likely that at least one was loose. These are huge animals.

Threads like these remind me how the Salem Witch Trials began.

I don't. I agree with you Soledad.

Dogs are animals, and strong carnivores at that. They *can* cause harm if not trained properly, and are not supervised. The mother may have made a terrible mistake, but the blame, in my opinion, mostly lies on the owner of the dogs. Why is everyone taking the dog owners out of the picture? Is everyone who owns dogs an angel just for the fact that they own dogs? Seriously though, those dogs are big and strong animals, and they are ANIMALS. You cannot blame an animal because they cannot be accountable for following their instincts, but people who have that many dogs HAVE TO BE responsible enough, otherwise they don't deserve to have them Twisterdog summed it all up very well. I think the owners of the dogs should be punished on behalf of their dogs' action. Other pets such as cats, birds, rabbits, etc. normally are not capable of causing human beings much harm, however dogs, if left unattended and not raised properly, can cause harm, so they are a greater responsibility than most other pets. If you have a dog, you be responsible and take care of them, while making sure your fellow townspeople are safe. If someone cannot manage, they simply shouldn't have them. Poor child for having had to die such a tragic death.

**shais_mom** · 10-03-2003, 12:41 AM

The mother.
The dog owner.
But as case eerily similiar except it doesn't involve dogs. Last week here where I live a mother left her 4 little ones with a 9 year old brother. Ages newborn, 1,3,4. Well the 1 and 3 year olds ended up in the dryer with it ON!!!
So they ended up at the hospital transferred to a children's unit. They were alright except very bruised and the brother is getting counseling in a psych unit I think b/c there is a history of him abusing the little ones.
Yes the 9 year old knew better but the mom should NOT have left him alone with them.

**Shelteez2** · 10-03-2003, 12:43 AM

I think that there is no point in playing the blame game.
Yes the child should have been better supervise.
Yes the dogs should have been taken care of better. They shouldn't have been chained up and they should have been in a secure yard.
But the facts remain the same, the child wasn't supervised, the dogs weren't in a secure yard.
Instead of throwing blame around we should all step back and look at how we live our lives in regards to the training and supervisation our kids and pets have.

**Soledad** · 10-03-2003, 12:44 AM

You know what's also ironic about this thread? The fact that someone posted a "remember when we were kids" forward about the joys of growing up in the "old days" and everyone raved about how great it was and how paranoid parents are today.

Interesting. I think I might go look for it.

**popcornbird** · 10-03-2003, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by Soledad
You know what's also ironic about this thread? The fact that someone posted a "remember when we were kids" forward about the joys of growing up in the "old days" and everyone raved about how great it was and how paranoid parents are today.

Interesting. I think I might go look for it.

I REMEMBER THAT THREAD!

I think I'm going to look for it too.