yogurt drops

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


I know I was just kiddin, LOL. N/nm if you read this

Oh..ok...sorry...I'm a little dumb/slow when it comes to jokes. Hehe.

P.S. I answered your rat cage price question under Rat Cages

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover


Oh..ok...sorry...I'm a little dumb/slow when it comes to jokes. Hehe.

P.S. I answered your rat cage price question under Rat Cages

LOL, I didn't think anyone would get it stupid joke any way

I know that is outragiouse I would never ever pay that much!

Ash

[luckies4me]

YLL a link or links if I find more about Ehtoxyquin effecting rats...very scary stuff!

rats


"Ethoxyquin has low oral toxicity in test animals. The oral LD50 of 20% and 50%, ethoxyquin in rats is 800-1,000mg/kg and the oral LD50 for 70% ethoxyquin in rats is 3,300 mg/kg. The oral LD50s in mice for 0.125% and 0.25% ethoxyquin are 85.7 -94.0 mg/kg and 98.5-112.1 mg/kg, respectively. This compound is a mild skin and eye irritant in test animals. Ethoxyquin was found to significantly decrease body weight, food intake, and occasionally growth rate in rats, cows, dogs, chickens, and mice exposed to prechronic and chronic doses in animal feed. In these studies, ethoxyquin caused a significant increase in liver and kidney weights in test animals. In male rats, adverse effects observed included scars on kidneys, inclusions in hepatic cells, and kidney lesions in the higher dosed groups (500-4000 ppm). Effects characteristic of chronic glomerulus nephrosis in male rats exposed to 4,000 ppm ethoxyquin were observed. In dogs fed doses of ethoxyquin ranging from 10-100 mg/kg, adverse effects observed included anorexia, abdominal pain, and increased liver and kidney weights. Dose-dependent exogenous pigment was seen in all groups. These animals also exhibited an increased fat content in the collecting tubules of kidneys, suggestive of fatty nephrosis. Limited data were found on the carcinogenic potential ofethoxyquin. This chemical has been found to be a weak bladder carcinogen in rats."

[luckies4me]

And if you can undertand any of this, lol...


http://www.biochemj.org/bj/279/bj2790385.htm


and another:
http://budgies-n-tiels.com/ethox.html


I am sure you can find more on your own

[ChewmonkeyBC]

Iv never bought yogurt drops for my ratties....but i think around here a small(very small)box is about 3-4 dollars?just guessing.......

[popcornbird]

Kaytee? Killer? Whatever! My friend's cockatiel is 25 years old. He eats Kaytee, and has been eating Kaytee seeds forever. The vet says he's one of the healthiest birds he ever met. I don't think Kaytee would be such a well known brand sold everywhere, a food that all animals consume on daily bases if it was so bad.

[Desert Arabian]

POPCORNBIRD- I LLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU! OMG- FINIALY, SOMEONE WHO ARGREES WITH ME (AND MY MOM) ABOUT THIS KAYTEE B.S!!

Ok...sorry, lol....just had to share my excitment.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Kaytee? Killer? Whatever! My friend's cockatiel is 25 years old. He eats Kaytee, and has been eating Kaytee seeds forever. The vet says he's one of the healthiest birds he ever met. I don't think Kaytee would be such a well known brand sold everywhere, a food that all animals consume on daily bases if it was so bad.

u make a good point, but i wish i could agree with u about the whole not selling them if they were bad thing...what about pine and cedar shavings? they still sell those, and they kill, yet people buy them every day triaminic used to carry a drug that killed hundreds of innocent children... ....ciggarettes! alchohol! i can name a million things that take peoples and animals lives every day, but people just dont see the light!
im not trying to start anything, and personally, i dont belive that there is a really high chance of anything since there is such a small quantity, as suggested with ur friends bird...i wouldnt risk using kaytee though, because even if their isnt a high chance, there is still a chance.
luckies4me do u have any statistics on kaytee? i would now like to know just how high the risk is....

[popcornbird]

I just checked my birds' seed bag. It does not have ethoxyquin in the ingredients. Does that mean its alright? I don't know, but when I got my birds, everyone told me kaytee is the best brand. I always buy kaytee because its the one with the clearest ingredients in cockatiel food, and everyone told me its the best. Now I'm confused.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by popcornbird
I just checked my birds' seed bag. It does not have ethoxyquin in the ingredients. Does that mean its alright? I don't know, but when I got my birds, everyone told me kaytee is the best brand. I always buy kaytee because its the one with the clearest ingredients in cockatiel food, and everyone told me its the best. Now I'm confused.

it shouldnt be in the seeds...its a drug, so it should only be in the yoggies...unless they have something else out there with that in it....eep now im gonna be paranoid lol

[popcornbird]

I just asked about kaytee and ethoxyquin on a cockatiel board. I'll tell you their response tomorrow hopefully. Most people there are VERY knowledgable about birds. I know its bad for rats as luckiesforme stated, but I need to know if its ok for birds and if kaytee is an good brand for bird seed. I'll let you all know what they say.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by popcornbird
I just asked about kaytee and ethoxyquin on a cockatiel board. I'll tell you their response tomorrow hopefully. Most people there are VERY knowledgable about birds. I know its bad for rats as luckiesforme stated, but I need to know if its ok for birds and if kaytee is an good brand for bird seed. I'll let you all know what they say.

yes, thats a good idea..after all rats and birds are 2 very different species..

[Desert Arabian]

Ethoxyquin is a preservative, by the way.

[luckies4me]

Yes it's a preservative but it's also a chemcial. The company who makes it packages it in bottles that have skulls and crossbones on it....what does that tell you? It's poison.


Kaytee knows they are doing tons of things wrong and that is why they NEVER reply to letters asking about Ethoxyquin that they use in their products. If you wish, write them yourself and you will get NO response, like I did.


Here is a snippet from the bird site....I will send you the link to the bird site that talks about Ethoxyquin in bird feed as well....

THERE IS NO NEED TO RISK THE HEALTH OF YOUR ANIMAL. WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE...FOR YOUR ANIMAL TO DIE? THEN YOU WILL CHANGE FOOD? THAT'S JUST WRONG, WHY TAKE THE RISK?


"
Ethoxyquin
By Gillian Willis
There was a considerable amount of discussion regarding ethoxyquin as a preservative in bird diets on CAGTAG-L back in March of this year. I have gathered a lot of material on ethoxyquin, but just haven't had the time to go through it all and to come up with some conclusions regarding its safety or otherwise.

Ethoxyquin is not used as a preservative for HUMAN foods with the following exception: . It is permitted to "promote colour retention" in paprika and ground chili pepper in a maximum concentration of 100 ppm.

The maximum allowable residue in eggs, meat, poultry, apples, pears, poultry fat and livers for HUMAN use is 0.5 ppm.

In ANIMAL feeds, the maximum allowable concentration of ethoxyquin is 150 ppm.

Lafebers provided me with information on the concentration of ethoxyquin in their avian products and it is less considerably less than 150 ppm. Neither Kaytee nor Roudybush responded to my letters requesting information on the concentrations of ethoxyquin in their products.

So what are the potential concerns regarding ethoxyquin? This chemical is not innocuous as has been suggested. Attached is part of an earlier post of mine in response to a question regarding the safety of ethoxyquin for birds:

"Interesting question. I was not familiar with the ethoxyquin controversy. However after quickly perusing the toxicity data (abstracts) there may be reason for concern. The acute oral LD 50 of ethoxyquin in rats is 800 mg/kg and in mice it is 1730 mg/kg.

Its chronic toxicity in animals is reported as "apparently low."
Chronic feeding studies in rats of 0.2 % of ethoxyquin in the diet caused transient depression in growth rate, At necropsy, damage to kidneys, liver and thyroid gland were seen in many of the male rats but not in the females.
In another study, diets containing 0.5 % ethoxyquin fed to rats for up to 18 months, produced renal lesions in all of the study animals.
Continuous administration to rats fed a diet of 0.2 % ethoxyquin, caused tumors in some of the animals according to one study.
Toxicity in chicks was "significantly greater when the diet was low in protein." (Details of this study were not given).
The above abstracts suggest that long-term exposure ito this chemical in our birds is a reason for concern."
As I have mentioned, I do not have the information together in order to offer you guidance as to whether you should use ethoxyquin-preserved avian diets or not. You will have to decide what you feel most comfortable with. There are good diets available that contain no preservatives and others that contain preservatives that have been approved for human use. Ethoxyquin has not been approved as a preservative for human use."



Now I am not saying I know everything and I have yet to study EVERYthing there is out there about this chemical, but if is even the slightest chance of my animals getting sick of of this I won't use it, period. Which is why my animals and I eat organic foods as much as we can, I hate pesticides and chemicals etc. I am not saying Kaytee is going to kill every animal but it's really remarkable that they NEVER answered my questions about the drug nor tons of other peoples, whereas other bird feed companies did respond and gave the actual amount they use in their products. To me if a company does not respond that makes me a little suspicious. Feed what you want, after all it is you as the owner who makes the end decision. But it is healthier to use a product that is naturally preserved with Vitamin E and not a chemical. Sorry but it just seems like common sense to me.


Now of course there are a lot of vets/people etc. who think this chemical preservative is safe and fine, but for me I just simply won't use it. I have talked to vets/dog breeders etc. and by hearing what the say it has certaintly changed my view on this product.

I too used to feed Kaytee to my tiels and then I switched them to pellets which are a lot better for birds. We then grew our own seed and gave that to the birds as treats.

It's up to you, take the risk or don't....but I'm not, period.

[Jessica12345]

we got a big pack (about 4 inch. high and 2 inch. wide) for 5$