for other Atheists out there

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

lol cataholic... I like your reply... why doesn't everyone just accept the fact that there is a celebration going on and join in?!!?!?

And yeah Christmas has become so commercialized..... I like buying gifts for the kids in my family.... but I don't like getting stressed out getting all the shopping done and sitting in holiday traffic..... I am a christian and we ALWAYS read the Christmas story (the birth of Jesus) out of the Bible before we open our presents... I hate getting lost in all of the hustle and bustle and just wish it could be all about baby Jesus' birth.

[Soledad]

Mugsy -

I often wonder how many people cling to religion, not so much out of faith or belief, but out of fear of punishment or desperation over the thought of no afterlife. It's an interesting question.

[COCatMama]

I have often wondered that myself Soledad...

[mugsy]

Again, I say, I respect everyone's right to live as they choose and do not judge them based on their beliefs. That being said, I don't understand why judgements are being passed now.

My faith stems from a deep seeded belief that God created Earth and molded all that's on it. I am an evolutionist through and through, but believe that a higher Being started it all and followed the procession of creation of different species. I am not afraid of anything. I do believe in reincarnation also, BUT, I also don't believe that the soul just ceases to exist. It just doesn't make sense. While I do believe that most organized religion is based on the guilt factor (be a good person or go to hell) which I have a big problem with also. Who are THEY to judge what happens to your soul after death...I think that's why God exists, and to that extent I would say that organized religion is hypocritical. I do not believe in all of teachings of the Catholic religion, but I feel more comfortable with more of their teachings than other religions.

As for Atheists not believing in Jesus Christ, I don't know any Atheists that don't believe in the man. They just don't believe that he is the Son of God. The man Jesus Christ was a great philosopher and historian. Lalania, do you dispute the fact that he lived? I'm guessing not. But please, please, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Soledad]

Mugsy -

I don't see where there are judgments being made. If you were referring to my post, I'm sorry for that misunderstanding. I was just wondering how many people do do that, not that you did, as I believe FAR more people have faith and believe for the right reasons than not.

Popcornbird -

I think the whole point we were trying to make is that Christmas has morphed into a secular holiday of sorts. One does not have to be a Christian to celebrate it, as it has become a cultural event.

I believe in Jesus. I believe he was a great man who had great things to say. But I don't believe he was God on earth. There's a difference there. Much like the distinction that you probably draw with Jesus as a Muslim.

As for Easter, I celebrate it if my mother is having family over for dinner or something. I have attended Mass with her on Easter, because it makes her happy and because I find Mass to be comforting and wonderful even if I don't believe anymore. I grew up going to temple with my Jewish friends and participating in Hindu ceremonies at friends' houses. I was always welcomed and I always enjoyed it.

I love sacred places. To me sacred places can be churches, cathedrals, mosques, temples, libraries, museums, mountains and parks. I don't think I have to be a Christian to value having traditions that involve family and friends. And I don't think one needs to believe in God to want to feel these traditions and emotions.

Spirituality is a lot more flexible than that.

[mugsy]

Soledad, yours was only part of it. Thank you for the apology, but, it was unneccessary. I just can't get where people can't just listen to what's being said without passing judgement on it. And trust me...most people on here are wonderful nonjudgemental people. But, like I said before...live and let live. I just like to talk to lots of different people and get lots of different perspectives.

[Soledad]

I never meant anything as a judgment. People speculate constantly about why others are not religious, and I speculate about both why the are and why they aren't. Don't see how that's offensive or treading on anyone's beliefs.

[mugsy]

With that explanation, I understand now where you were coming from. When we lose the ability or desire to question, I think all is lost. Thanks for explaining.

[COCatMama]

I believe "jesus" was just a regular Joe like the rest of us who probably had some pretty wild stuff happen to him. I believe he was in a coma-like state for days then woke up, hence the coming back from the dead idea. I am ultimately a pretty logical person...soooo like I said before believe what ya want and to heck with what anyone else thinks

[kimlovescats]

I typically don't like to get involved in religious "debates". I do however want to make one comment here.

I am a christian, and speaking for myself, and presumably most other christians. Christians are often misunderstood and accused of "shoving religion down throats" of other beliefs. I am trying hard not to be guilty of that, but it is extremely hard not to try and "witness" to non-believers. See .... that is the core responsibility for christians .... we want to share the joy we have found in our salvation experience with others .... not shove it down people's throats. Speaking for myself, when I read about other non-Christian beliefs, I am saddened ... not mad or disgusted with the person!!! We, as christians are taught to share with others, and to spread the word of God ... so please, don't take it as "shoving" or "holier than thou" attitudes! I know that I am genuinely concerned for people's souls.

[COCatMama]

But see, that's what drives the rest of us nuts, the 'witnessing'...you don't see us atheists walking into a church on Sunday and unwitnessing people right? the JW's think their religion is the only 'right' one and everyone else is goin' to he11, so they have to run around trying to 'convert' people. And don't be sad, I'm not sad for you!! and don't worry about my soul, it's just fiiiiiiiine .

Originally posted by kimlovescats
I typically don't like to get involved in religious "debates". I do however want to make one comment here.

I am a christian, and speaking for myself, and presumably most other christians. Christians are often misunderstood and accused of "shoving religion down throats" of other beliefs. I am trying hard not to be guilty of that, but it is extremely hard not to try and "witness" to non-believers. See .... that is the core responsibility for christians .... we want to share the joy we have found in our salvation experience with others .... not shove it down people's throats. Speaking for myself, when I read about other non-Christian beliefs, I am saddened ... not mad or disgusted with the person!!! We, as christians are taught to share with others, and to spread the word of God ... so please, don't take it as "shoving" or "holier than thou" attitudes! I know that I am genuinely concerned for people's souls.

[Ann]

Well, kudos to you for having the guts to start this thread!

I think the answer on why we celebrate Christmas has already been explained so I won't repeat it all again. As for the whole shoving down throat/witnessing thing, Lalania said it all again.

[K9karen]

Well.....this is what makes the world go round..
Controversal - esp; for PT but I love the fact we can broach a
subject, keep it respectful, disagree and still (hopefully) like each other. I do like having a menagerie of friends, makes life interesting.
But can we PLEEAAASSEEE not start any political ???
HAPPINESS TO ALL

[lizbud]

One comment only: I don't think a Pet Talk forum is the
the place for ANY discussion of either Religion or Politics.

Unless it is somehow tied to animal interests, it's strickly
a "people" issue and best left to another board.

[kimlovescats]

Lizbud... I think that's why it's on the General board!