New pup *hates* crate - doesn't listen

[Karen]

Instead of a crate, you can confine her to one room - kitchens are usually pretty "safe" - if there's no door, or half-door, you can keep her in with a with a "baby gate." The cats can jump over, but she can't, (not yet). That leaves the cats free to come and go, and she in a place she can wander but not get into too much trouble.

(My brother and his wife did this, and still sometimes do, with their rescue-pup. She was a boisterous 6-month-old, with plenty of enthusiasm, but NO manners. The cats were NOT amused, but quickly staked out "their" territory, and knew when Lady was confined, and things were "safe.")

The point of feeding her when she's on "her" blanket is that is becomes more hers, a good place, a safe place, a place where good things happen. She will be less inclined to soil it, and will treat it, hopefully, as her "nest."

The more she is on it, the more it smells like herself, the more she'll like it.

I think Carrie is trying to make sure that YOUR bed never becomes a point of contention - YOU are Alpha dog, YOU get the "big bed," lesser dogs in the pack get their own bed.

Hope this helped!

Oh, and the short leash inside is so you can grab the leash easily and control her if need be. A leash is far easier to hang onto than a slickery wiggly puppy!

[wolf_Q]

I really don't see any problem with a crate at home. I think you've got to have a way to confine the pup when you need to for a minute or 2. If you want to confine her in a kitchen or something, that would work too. I didn't really have the option of that, no place for a baby gate. I sometimes tie a leash to a doorknob or something in the kitchen also. I, personally, don't believe in letting a puppy run loose (without close supervision) in the house too often lol....you are giving them too many opportunities to go potty or destroy things without you seeing it. Nebo won't leave my other dogs alone, just like Jaetta won't leave your cats alone.

I don't see a problem of the pup sleeping in your room either. The pup wants to be with you, she wants to be part of the pack. I think the pup should sleep in a crate in your room. That's what my Nebo does. I really don't think she would be ready to sleep on a blanket yet. If she is anything like Nebo, your room would be totally destroyed by morning!! I plan on letting Nebo sleep on a doggy bed next to my bed when he's older, but if I did that now, he'd never sleep...he'd just eat my blankets, etc. lol.

I know how you feel about the leash walking thing. It's really annoying to try to train the dog.......as you don't get anywhere on a walk having to stop and turn around. It does pay off though. Nebo walks much better now. I started him just walking him late at night over to the church and back, that way I didn't have so much of an audience, lol. I was taught to have treats and say things to get the dogs attention to get it to walk *with* you. Be sure to always give the treat as you are walking, don't stop to do it.

As for taking the dog to work, that's your own option. If I could take my dog, I would. But since I can't, and there's no doggy daycare places near me....I have to leave him home. But I leave him in a large dog run. That way he can eat, drink, go potty, etc. while I'm gone. I always leave him with some type of toy (like kongs) that contains a treat to keep him busy when I first leave. He'd bark in there at first, but he's great now. Doesn't make a sound...he's usually asleep in his igloo when I come home.

My dog was a real biter too. He still is, but not nearly as bad. Sometimes if I was playing with him and he'd start biting at me, I'd shove a toy in his mouth and make him bite that instead. I think sometimes they don't realize how hard they are biting........although it *really* hurts! If he'd still be biting me even after I shoved the toy in his mouth, I'd get up and ignore him. I found myself saying "No Bite!" often, lol. When I say "Ow!" usually he'd start biting me even more.

Nebo never wanted to be cuddled either. He'd freak out and claw/bite me if I tried to hold him at all. He still doesn't like to be held down for too long, but now he'll come and sit his big butt in my lap, lol. How long have you had Jaetta? Maybe you still need some "bonding time." I know that I thought Nebo hated me for quite a while. It takes some time for you and the dog to build up trust and well...for the dog to love you.

[strass]

Hi Berber!

I know this must be a really frustrating time for you. We recently adopted a 2-year-old border collie/whippet/pitbull terrier mix from the shelter and have been dealing with some possession-aggression problems. He'll get nasty sometimes if we're getting too close to his food, a stolen sock, etc.

I wanted to respond to your question about feeding. I think this is what Carrie meant. Your dog needs to see that you, the Alpha, eat first. So, before you feed him, get his bowl and put it on the counter. That way he knows it's feeding time. Then, take out a plate and put a little snack on it for yourself. Eat it, put your plate in the sink, and then feed your pup. Alphas eat first, lesser dogs have to wait. We're doing this, plus hand-feeding, with our Murphy, and I think it's starting to make a difference. He's become a lot calmer at feeding time and won't snap at me if one of his kibbles rolls away and I pick it up...he knows I'll give it to him.

We tried to crate-train Murph, but it just didn't work. Keep in mind he's 2. But I've heard that some dogs just never take to the crate.

I don't know if this is the best tactic, but when Murphy is REALLY acting up (trying to jump up when we eat dinner, being especially bitey, etc.), we sometimes give him a squirt with a plant water-sprayer, along with a sharp "NO" or "EH-EH." It definitely makes him stop. We don't want to have to hit him, and feel like this is more "humane."

One other tip--don't let Jaetta sleep on your bed or get on the couch, etc. That makes her feel "equal" to you, which she isn't.

Good luck! Things will get better!! Obedience classes will help.

[ParNone]

wolfq writes:

Nebo never wanted to be cuddled either. He'd freak out and claw/bite me if I tried to hold him at all. He still doesn't like to be held down for too long, but now he'll come and sit his big butt in my lap

I'm having a similar issue with my Collie puppy. He'd much rather
be playing than cuddling, so he struggles when I hold him and
pet him. If what he loves best is playing, I can adjust my cuddle
expectations, but I do need to be able to hold and handle him.
So what I've been doing is picking him up and holding him and
the moment he stops struggling, I set him down. That way he
associates being calm in my arms with getting what he wants,
which is to be on the floor playing. It really seems to be working.
He's struggling less and when I do hold him now, he noses me in
my ear and on my nose, in what I'm interpreting to be his way of
showing affection.

Par...

[anna_66]

That is one thing Roxey used to HATE! She wouldn't be still enough for you to even pet her, all she wanted to do was bite & wiggle around. She was never mean about it or anything, she just couldn't keep herself still enough to get petted!
Now, she'll just lay there and let me cuddle her or whatever I want Maybe they just have to grow up a little?

[marjanton]

I remember my first months with my now 8yo "pup". My clearest memory was the hour with an animal psychiatrist while I sobbed the entire session.
Things get better---I just needed to have someone tell me that. Max is my dearest friend today. I can't imagine what I would do without him. BYW, Max is the dog.
I am reading "Dogs Never Lie About Love" by Jeffery Masson. One of his three dogs is a female german shepard. You might enjoy it.The best of luck to you---my old peditrician used to order "tincture of time."

[BerberCarpet]

Today was *much* better.


Hand feeding
This is going well... and paying off big-time.

I'm feeding at least half of every meal by hand. Usually the first part, then I'll let her eat for awhile "on her own" and then I'll feed her the last 15 or so pieces of kibble.

I'm holding the piece between my finger and thumb (tightly) and if she gets it with no teeth on my skin (more or less) I say "gentle" and let her have it. If she does touch teeth to skin, however, I don't let her have it--I say "off" and hold it still. If she clamps down, I say "off" again, more firmly, and blow in her ear (this makes her back off *fast*), then I praise her, put the piece down, and try again.

This has two benefits that I can see: she's learning how much teeth human skin can take (not much!), and she's learning the "off" command--which comes in handy when she's biting me.



Biting

I have come to the conclusion that this is how Jaetta thinks it's good to play.

The "off" command is starting to work durring play, too, and so I'm no longer in pain or bleeding. This is good, and makes it easier to "stay with it."

As with the hand-feeding, if she doesn't back off when i say the first time, I'll repeat it firmly and blow in her ear--followed up by praise and a click on the clicker when she backs off.

(Hopefully the blow in the ear trick will continue to work, huh?)



Crate

I'm hand feeding her in her crate.

This is working very very well: she goes in there on her own when I get the food out.

(!)

I think this has as much to do with the hand feeding in the crate as it does the clicker-training, however.



Clicker training

I bought a clicker at Petsmart on Sunday, and have been using it.

It's like voodoo--she *loves* it, and responds very well to this type of training.

She has learned "sit", "up" and "down" since Sunday (not reliabely, obviously, but she is only 9 weeks old), and is getting to know "Kennel up" as well.

This is a marked difference from last week.



First vet trip

We went the vet for the first time last night, and she did very well.

She was mostly calm, esspecially at first.

She took 3 shots without noticing, AFAICT, and only started to really cry near the end, when there was a very loud annoying small dog outside our room while we were waiting on her stool sample to get done (no worms!).

She didn't bite me nor the vet during this visit.

Yahoo!



Chasing the cats

This is still happening--and I'm not sure what will help.

I have two very different cats, both from the same litter.


Anka is a beatiful Grey colour, with yellow eyes and black nose, and weighs about 5 pounds.

She loves to be held, and can be held in any position--upside down, draped over your shoulder, whatever--she's purring like mad.

But she doesn't like to just sit--she's always into *something.*

She can jump from the floor to the top of the fridge without even phsyching herself up for it. Floor, fridge, boom. Just like that. Amazing.



Bella is an "ugly" brown/white/grey/black "stripped" thing, with this odd "bullseye" marking on her sides.

(She's actually quite pretty, but Anka is gorgous, so it makes Bella look--plain.)

Bella weighs almost 12 pounds, i think.

They eat the same (Anka may eat a little more, i think) stuff, so it's all just biology/personality.

Bella is all about laying around.

When i had a TV, she'd love to sit on the couch and watch it with me.

(Anka would be drinking from the sink or knocking stuff off the top of the 7-foot bookshelf)

Bella has always been (from the first day I brought them home from my uncle's farm when they were kittens--2.5 years ago) a little.... ....off.

She's skittish.

She always has her eyes wide open, and the slightest noise will make her jump.

(Anka couldn't care less about that stuff--she's too busy climbing on the fireplace mantle.)

Bella can hardly jump onto the back of the couch.

Heh.


So that's my cats.


I'm afraid Jaetta's going to give Bella a heart attack.

And I'm afraid Anka's going to give Jaetta claw marks in her eyeball.

(no de-clawing in this house, thank you very much)


Anka is such a bi@$% to Jaetta--she'll go into the kitchen where Jaetta's "penned in", and jump onto a chair and lay there with her tail bouncing around.

This just makes Jaetta go nuts!

And Jaetta will bark at her and try to sniff her and then Anka will bop Jaetta on the nose.

(no claws, yet--I play pretty rough with Anka, and she's learned not to scratch)


But I have never seen a cat egg a dog on like this.

It would be funny if it wasn't so scary.

I don't know who's going to get hurt first, but it's giving me an ulcer.


(I should never have kids. I called the emergency vet the first time Anka coughed up a hairball--I had no idea what was going on. I thought she was dying. I cried.)


Me <-- big wimp


In any case, she's chasing the cats.





Chewing metal

So I got this....... ...fence, in the kitchen, right?

I have an 8 foot span to cover from the living room to the kitchen, so a normal blockade wouldn't do.

So my dad and I installed a four-foot high chain-link fence, with gate.

(yes, I have to climb *under* the gate--it's mad annoying)

But it has these metal bolts on the gate hinges.

And Jaetta is chewing them sometimes.

This cannot be good on her teeth.

She's doing this with her bone, Kong and Nylabone all laying right there.

?

Will Bitter Apple help this?

It's normal corregated metal fencing.



Okay, I think that's all.


wow... that's a long post, huh?

[BerberCarpet]

Scratch that.....


She must have just been in a good mood for a 18 hours or so.


She's more aggresive than ever now.


She bites my pant legs when I try to walk her, and she bites my arms when I try to put her leash on/off.


I've tried the "ep, ep" thing and pulling her head "away" with her lead, as it's "non-confrontational" but she's strong--and I have to pull so hard that I'm afraid it'll hurt her. (besides the fact that she seems to consider this the same as me actually pulling her away from me with my hands)


I've tried pinning her down (calmly), but she flails.

I've tried time-outs (tying her leash to a door knob in the kitchen) of varying lengths, but she tends to go right back to being aggresive when I go to "let her out."

I've tried isolating her calmly in her crate, but when she's in this excited/biting mood, she simply will not go in calmly, even when I try and bribe her with ice cubes (her favourite treat).

I've tried Sarah Hodgson's "look for rain" trick--crossing my arms and looking at the sky (ie, giving no attention at all) until she calms down, but she will happily bite at my ankles and calves for as long as I've cared to try it so far (several minutes, at least).

I have tried firm "Jaetta, No!" and "Off!" (which still works when i'm hand-feeding her, but not while she's biting me anymore).


But all in all, nothing seems to make her calm down and not want to bite more.


?

[ownerof3dogs]

A little trick that works for my dogs with chasing the cats and biting is:

You fill a soda can or and can that is metal with pennies and seal it shut. Then everytime shes chasing the cat or biting you shake it really hard or throw it on the floor so it make a horrible load noise. It usually surprises the dog and stops them form what there doing. And they wont do it again b/c they'll start to associate that action with the bad sound.

It worked for my dogs and maybe it will work for yours.

Good luck!

[BerberCarpet]

I'm starting to sound like Grouchy Smurf here, but...


I tried that.

She did back away the first couple of times, but then she growled, jumped up and took the can out of my hand and started whipping it around in her mouth, like it was a snake.

Now when she sees it, she just barks at it, whether I am shaking it or not.

[Cookiebaker]

Have you considered getting a personal trainer to work with you 1 on 1? It's not so much about training the dog, but training you how to train the dog. I know they can be fairly expensive but how committed are you? Are you convinced that this is the "right" dog for you??

[BerberCarpet]

All valid questions.

Believe me, I have considered everything.


I would *love* to be able to get a 1-on-1 trainer.

But I am mad poor--and getting this dog was a poor financial decision, regardless of her personality/temperment--I couldn't afford her (really) and I can barely afford to keep her.

I should have waited, but I didn't and now I cannot afford what it would take to fix it.

It's frustrating to me and not good for her.

I blew it.



Next question, am I sure this is the right dog for me?

No, I'm not.

I am in love with her, and when she's a sweetheart, I get a glimpse of the relationship we could have one day, but I'm actually pretty convinced that she really needs an experienced Sch handler.

I'm also starting to think that the breeder knew this and sold this pup to me anyway.

I'm not happy about that, but again, I made this bed.

[trisha0503]

Hi,

I'm sorry you're experiencing these problems with your new puppy.

I found this link Dog Aggression Question and Answers

I checked out the sites and it seems very helpful and thorough.

I hope things would work out well between you and your puppy.

[wolf_Q]

All I can say is *please* don't give up on her! I had the very same thoughts with Nebo! He was also aggressive and it really scared me! I don't have much money either, and I really couldn't afford a dog. But I did it anyway, haha. Actually, I just barely got a job.......and I've had him since july.......my poor bank account.

She bites my pant legs when I try to walk her, and she bites my arms when I try to put her leash on/off.


I've tried the "ep, ep" thing and pulling her head "away" with her lead, as it's "non-confrontational" but she's strong--and I have to pull so hard that I'm afraid it'll hurt her. (besides the fact that she seems to consider this the same as me actually pulling her away from me with my hands)


I've tried pinning her down (calmly), but she flails.

I've tried time-outs (tying her leash to a door knob in the kitchen) of varying lengths, but she tends to go right back to being aggresive when I go to "let her out."

Nebo did the SAME things. I'm not kidding here. Whenever I'd grab his collar he'd snap and growl at me. Don't do the pinning her down thing--it doesn't work! At least for strong-willed dogs, in my opinion. It just makes them mad! Nebo bit me ALL the time. HARD, he even drew a little bit of blood a few times. Of course, being me, I was freaking out about all of this! Get her in the kindergarten, give her some time to adjust to her new life and to get to know you......and know you are boss. The change in my dog is very dramatic. Seriously. I really thought he hated me, and he was very mean......we were not getting along well at all. Now he comes and snuggles in my lap, he can sit, down, shake, speak, roll-over, wait, stay, leave it, etc. (for the most part). He still bites sometimes, and he still destroys things......but well, that's puppyhood.

[marjanton]

I know this is off the subject, but have you noticed that being financially challenged and having a dog sometimes works to yur advantage?
I hate to leave Max, (he doesn't mind going to his grandma's house or to DogE-Central--a great in- house animal spa near us) but I miss him. Therefore I tend to plan vacations in the car and with people that feel the same way about their animaals. We often stay in the cheaper motels, because they allow dogs. We picnic, because "it's too hot to leave them in the car." If we do go into the restuarant, we skip drinks and appetizers, because "you never know when that darn car will heat up on a day like this."I love to garden, but this year I did the minimum, "because the off-lease dog park is a mile away and at their work parties, Max is a favorite and I'd rather work in making the park look nice, I have more fun." Instead of the treadmill, I take fast walks.
Of course, knock on wood, I have a healthy dog and vet bills consist of only shots and Advantage flea treatment. Soo, when considering a tight budget, a dog can work both ways. Just a thought.