What is YOUR definition of a BYB?

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

To me, a BYB is somebody who doesn't health test, show and/or work their dogs (depending on the breed), and just generally isn't breeding to better the breed. Being in it for money is another sign as well.

[Ginger's Mom]

No it is for the money,This is how her and her husband live,Off all there animals,I have seen some of the pups,Now i cannot judge there health but from what i have seen they seem to be healthy,And all that has been told to me is it is very clean atmosphere.Now this couple are in there 60's i would say.

Exactly they breed several different breeds in order to make money. That would be what a puppy mill does. By your own words you cannot speak to the health of the pups or the cleanliness of the kennels. The worst puppy mill in PA is run by a lady that is in her late 50's; age has nothing to do with it. Whether she thinks there is anything wrong with breeding multiple litters of dogs with questionable health and breeding, doesn't really change the fact that she runs one of the worst puppy mills in PA. The proprietors health and indifference to the severity of the dog overpopulation problem does not make their puppy mill anything better or different than any other puppy mill.

[Lori Jordan]

Exactly they breed several different breeds in order to make money. That would be what a puppy mill does. By your own words you cannot speak to the health of the pups or the cleanliness of the kennels. The worst puppy mill in PA is run by a lady that is in her late 50's; age has nothing to do with it. Whether she thinks there is anything wrong with breeding multiple litters of dogs with questionable health and breeding, doesn't really change the fact that she runs one of the worst puppy mills in PA. The proprietors health and indifference to the severity of the dog overpopulation problem does not make their puppy mill anything better or different than any other puppy mill.

I am not defending any actions from this couple,I am just saying i have never heard anything bad or wrong with her dogs,It is a tough situation i wish i could take all these animals that go with out,But you and i both know it is impossible.

There are alot of things going on in this world that no one can change,As animal lovers we cannot sit here and say we are against it all,Where would or pets have come from?

[bckrazy]

Like members before me already stated, a BYB is anybody who does not breed to better the breed. Thus, anybody who does not health test their dogs, does not show their dogs either in conformation or in the field, breeds unacceptable or abnormal varieties ("Imperial Shih Tzus", parti-color poodles [AKC DQ], "Tiny Toy Chihuahuas", etc.), and anybody who breeds for money is a BYB.

Now, there are also irresponsible breeders who are every bit as bad as BYBs. Irresponsible breeders may health test their dogs, they may show every once in a while and have a couple CH's here and there. They may love their dogs dearly, but they are ignorant. I once knew a breeder who, on the outside, seemed like a reputable breeder. However, her dogs began throwing dysplastic pups. Yet, she denied any genetic link and continued to breed her dogs without a second thought.

There should only be one type of breeder: one who strives to produce puppies even better than the parents of the pups. A responsible breeder is one who produces stronger, healthier puppies truer to the standard. Any breeder who does not follow these rules is a BYB/irresponsible breeder.

HAHA. yeah, I'm lazy, and that's exactly how I feel on this topic.

IMHO, a breeder first and foremost should know every little thing about their breed, every in and out, and should have a real love and respect for them. Every admirable breeder I have met has owned their breed for years & years, and could talk about their dogs all day long. I also feel any reputable breeder should be actively involved in breed rescue, not only adding good quality dogs to the breed, but also helping to clean up after the bad breeders.

[bckrazy]

NOT everyone can afford a pet from a breeder, and some BYB'S arent as bad as others.

Calling one BYB okay, and one BYB villainous, is just kind of pointless to me. Neither should be supported, ever. Unless one's goal is to feed the huge overpopulation issue in this country. If that's the case... go for it!

For those who cannot afford a dog from a reputable breeder - rescue dogs usually cost under $100 to adopt, spayed/neutered and vaccinated. Which basically means the dogs are free, you're just paying for vetting.

I have adopted 2 dogs, both of which took amazingly little effort! I actually wanted to give them MORE personal information, and talk to them MORE than they required. If shelters are repeatedly rejecting you, you should probably consider if you have the ability to care for a dog. Seriously. D: It drives me insaaane when people whine about rescues/shelters being unfair, or not having the dog they want, or having a long process. I'm sure there are some lame rescues out there. But, you know, there are only millions of dogs to choose from in this country! If you do not want to go through a few days of screening to adopt a dog, you probably don't need to be getting into a 10-15 year commitment.

[ScottieMommy]

Calling one BYB okay, and one BYB villainous, is just kind of pointless to me. Neither should be supported, ever. Unless one's goal is to feed the huge overpopulation issue in this country. If that's the case... go for it!

For those who cannot afford a dog from a reputable breeder - rescue dogs usually cost under $100 to adopt, spayed/neutered and vaccinated. Which basically means the dogs are free, you're just paying for vetting.

I have adopted 2 dogs, both of which took amazingly little effort! I actually wanted to give them MORE personal information, and talk to them MORE than they required. If shelters are repeatedly rejecting you, you should probably consider if you have the ability to care for a dog. Seriously. D: It drives me insaaane when people whine about rescues/shelters being unfair, or not having the dog they want, or having a long process. I'm sure there are some lame rescues out there. But, you know, there are only millions of dogs to choose from in this country! If you do not want to go through a few days of screening to adopt a dog, you probably don't need to be getting into a 10-15 year commitment.

Many dog lovers have tried to adopt and just because the rent, they smoke (YES) they got rejected, and where in the world do they go for dogs? They wont circle the world looking at more shelters because some dont even adopt out if they are not in the samy city/state. Shelters are really strick and i hate it when the dog's live in on the line. Just because you rent or smoke does NOT mean you dont love dogs, and shelters should know better than to judge someone like that, is their big heart and love that counts. If they dint want the dog, they would not spend their time filling out an app and having their homes looked at (some) So where do they get their dog?

[RedyreRotties]

I prefer the term HIGH RISK BREEDER.

Anyone who does not:

Use only the highest quality of animals
Do ALL health testing and PUBLISH ALL RESULTS, normal or not
Participate in some sort of competition with their dogs
Participate in their National Breed Club
Participate in some way in Breed Rescue
Sell all animals with a written contract
Require spay/neuter of pets
Take back ANY animal at ANY time for ANY reason that they have bred, or that their stud dogs have sired
Educate new people

Is a high risk breeder to me. Breeding is serious business, and should only be entered into by those who have a certain amount of education and experience in dogs, and who has a good mentor system.

JMO as always....

[Lori Jordan]

What everyone has to remeber,The BYB are the one at fault,I know we all know it is not the animals fault and they desereve a loving home as much as an animal that is coming from a reputable breeder.

All my animals have come from Breeders,And to be honest there the ones that are always chosen,So i will never go to a breeder again,THere are so many wonderful dogs in shelters,That dont get so lucky.

But way back when i was growing up,Shelters were the thing,We never went to a breeder,We always went back to the shelter and got dogs.

All animals deserve the best,And i have now come to realization,That Puppy mills,BYB,and just morons who think breeding a dog will become rich,These animals need homes more,There is always people that will go to a breeder,Those dogs will never go withought(I pray)

[buttercup132]

um...no...my grammar is no concern of urs. But still u guys jumped my thread yesterday and i was ready to leave pt for good. you and the rest of the bashes need to stop fighting with harmless ppl who love there pets. I dont bug u about ur pets and how u raise them. if u want to get some thing done in the world about the pet population and puppy mills get out there and do something dont stay at home and sit on ur comp. im done wit u and ur bashin friends. peace out

Well then I'll just take it to Karen about your spelling. Stop your whinning and feeling sorry for yourself about people saying you shouldn't breed cause it's getting annoying. I never "bashed" you in your thread either. This has nothing to do with you or your thread so get over it and stop dragging it into my thread.

Many dog lovers have tried to adopt and just because the rent, they smoke (YES) they got rejected,

I have to agree in the fact that I think that is rediculous when people get rejected for stuff like that. Those shelters are too stirct and they aren't getting as many dogs adopted out.

There are always rescue all over though (like breed specific ones) that will round up people to help transport so if the shelter near you won't adopt out to you for a silly reason you can always get in contact with them.

[Nobas Mom]

I once knew a breeder who, on the outside, seemed like a reputable breeder. However, her dogs began throwing dysplastic pups. Yet, she denied any genetic link and continued to breed her dogs without a second thought.

Hubby and I are on our way out of town... finally to take care of some important and not good family stuff... but decided to check PT one last time. I fully agree with this Giselle. Noba's breeder is like this. Came across as very reputable, but then as soon as Noba was diagnosed with Hip Dysplasia at 8 months, she did a total turn around; was uncaring, denied any responsibility (tried telling me it was something I had done)... and yet continues to breed the mom and dad... hmm... byob comes to my mind...

Well everyone have a good thanksgiving, not sure when I will be back, but take care and if I can, I will check back into PT every so often!

[bckrazy]

If they dint want the dog, they would not spend their time filling out an app and having their homes looked at (some) So where do they get their dog?

I cannot begin to count the number of people I know, who were basically handed a dog from a shelter/rescue, who should NEVER have been given the responsibility of a dog's life.

I also know of zero shelters that do home checks, zero. If you rent... you should have permission from your landlord before adopting. And there is always a box to check if your rent or own, and you just write down your landlord's number. whoopideedo!

Personally, I would rather not own a dog, than resort to a BYB who doesn't even care enough to screen your home. A breeder who doesn't care about where their puppies are going, probably also doesn't give a crap about the quality of the puppies they produce. Common sense, therefore, says that those puppies are not going to be healthy.

If a shelter won't approve you, a half-way decent breeder sure as heck won't. I think the problem here is so many people in this society want what they want, right NOW. They aren't willing to look around, it's way easier to whip out a newspaper and pick up a BYB puppy with no obligations or questioning involved. I know some people who do this are actually good owners, but most of them, simply are not. They want instant results, and when that puppy won't stop peeing on the carpet or when that puppy isn't tiny & cute, it ends up in a shelter. Hence the reason that nearly 50% of puppies go through the shelter system before age 2.

[ScottieMommy]

I cannot begin to count the number of people I know, who were basically handed a dog from a shelter/rescue, who should NEVER have been given the responsibility of a dog's life.

I also know of zero shelters that do home checks, zero. If you rent... you should have permission from your landlord before adopting. And there is always a box to check if your rent or own, and you just write down your landlord's number. whoopideedo!

Personally, I would rather not own a dog, than resort to a BYB who doesn't even care enough to screen your home. A breeder who doesn't care about where their puppies are going, probably also doesn't give a crap about the quality of the puppies they produce. Common sense, therefore, says that those puppies are not going to be healthy.

If a shelter won't approve you, a half-way decent breeder sure as heck won't. I think the problem here is so many people in this society want what they want, right NOW. They aren't willing to look around, it's way easier to whip out a newspaper and pick up a BYB puppy with no obligations or questioning involved. I know some people who do this are actually good owners, but most of them, simply are not. They want instant results, and when that puppy won't stop peeing on the carpet or when that puppy isn't tiny & cute, it ends up in a shelter. Hence the reason that nearly 50% of puppies go through the shelter system before age 2.

If you actually lived in the city i live you would know how shelters will reject you. And NOT only me but i have asked million of people who could NOT adopt. And NO if i want a dog i have the right to get a dog actually. I wont just NOT get one because the shelter rejected me, thats wrong. There are MANY people out there like the "Beagle lady" i would get a dog from instead of NOT having one. Everyone deserves the love from a wonderful companion, just because you cant adopt does not mean you stop there.

[bckrazy]

What if that BYB puppy ends up with parvo? Or with a genetic health issue, like hip dysplasia, before they're even 1 year old? You have no contract to guarantee your puppy's health. You have nothing. You're going to be shelling out $1000's, instead of paying the extra few hundred dollars for a well-bred puppy. I know starving college kids who saved up to buy from a reputable breeder, for over a year. It isn't impossible, for pretty much anyone.

You have talked to millions of people? Wow. That's pretty intense.

I'm not saying you cannot support a BYB. You can do whatever you want to do. But, I would rather be dog-less than giving money to people who are responsible for the deaths of millions of dogs, and that's just me.

And, I completely disagree with your last statement. NOT everyone deserves the love of a dog... because NOT everyone has the time/commitment/money/responsibility to own a dog. Which is exactly why shelters and rescues try to screen homes as best they can; they don't want to get that dog back in 6 months, and repeat the cycle. It is not fair, to the dogs.

[dukedogsmom]

My definition is my ex SIL (thank goodness). She's got two small dogs of different breeds. Refuses to spay or neuter either. Lets them breed and sells them, of course. Because it's all about the money. Made me sick when I had to go over there and see those puppies. She has been through so many animals. Oh, a long time ago, she was breeding some cats with no tails in a spare bedroom. She let a few of them die. I was uneducated back then but it still made me sick.

[ScottieMommy]

What if that BYB puppy ends up with parvo? Or with a genetic health issue, like hip dysplasia, before they're even 1 year old? You have no contract to guarantee your puppy's health. You have nothing. You're going to be shelling out $1000's, instead of paying the extra few hundred dollars for a well-bred puppy. I know starving college kids who saved up to buy from a reputable breeder, for over a year. It isn't impossible, for pretty much anyone.

You have talked to millions of people? Wow. That's pretty intense.

I'm not saying you cannot support a BYB. You can do whatever you want to do. But, I would rather be dog-less than giving money to people who are responsible for the deaths of millions of dogs, and that's just me.

And, I completely disagree with your last statement. NOT everyone deserves the love of a dog... because NOT everyone has the time/commitment/money/responsibility to own a dog. Which is exactly why shelters and rescues try to screen homes as best they can; they don't want to get that dog back in 6 months, and repeat the cycle. It is not fair, to the dogs.

Is a figure of speech when i said millions, geesh. And YES everyone looking for a dog deserves to have one. And how about if the puppy does not endup with parvo? Huh? Is more than a 50% she/he wont, and will live a healthy life, thats if you know how to pick. I would of bought a Beagle puppy from the lady i talked about with my eyes closed, no doubt about it. You need to know how to pick, some people loved their animals some dont, period.