Battle of the Headcollars - Halti vs. Gentle Leader

[theterrierman]

Fender is a TERRIBLE walker. I feel so sorry when I walk him because he chokes himself something awful. I've tried the walking in the opposite direction when he pulls, and using a martingale, and neither have worked taht great. The turning around method has alleviated the pulling somewhat, but the constant back and forth hurts his neck, even when I'm gentle, and it still doesn't give me control when he decides to go try to flush the robin across the street. I'm ready to go for a headcollar, despite the fact that he'll now be labeled "vicious" everywhere I go. My question to PT is, do I go with a Gentle Leader, Halti, or another brand/type, and why? Fender, if you don't know, is a 5 month old Brittany puppy, he's a touch dominant, but not really alpha, and can be quite strong willed for a Britt. I swear to god he has a terrier brain in there. Anyway, any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Andy

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

I don't like head collars at all and unless you have to, I'd really opt not to use one. I've heard of too many accidents happening with them to feel safe using any. That, and when I did use one on Tango for a while I always felt really uncomfortable with it (and she didn't really like it much either - just tolerated it), especially when she'd turn her head suddenly to look at something. Have you thought of trying a no-pull harness? Those are supposed to work really well for pullers.

If you do choose to go for a head collar, which one is best really depends on your dog. You'd have to try both on him and see which fits better and such.

[theterrierman]

I don't like head collars at all and unless you have to, I'd really opt not to use one. I've heard of too many accidents happening with them to feel safe using any. Have you thought of trying a no-pull harness? Those are supposed to work really well for pullers.

If you do choose to go for a head collar, which one is best really depends on your dog. You'd have to try both on him and see which fits better and such.

What type of accidents if you don't mind me asking. PM me if it's graphic. I was considering that exact harness, but I'd never seen one used, and I knew headcollars worked well. Do you know anyone who's had success with one?

[NicoleLJ]

Halti's, just like any training aid, can have it's good points and bad. It is not for every dog or owner. Sheena loves her halti and even works with it on. Very few have mistaken it as a muzzle because we live in ranching and farming country so most people recognize it for what it is. Luca on the other hand never really took to it.

The trick is to find a training aid, collar or harness that not only works for you but also for the dog. Good luck with what ever you decide to use.
Nicole

[cali]

I like the Haltie, Misty has one, and I used it as a training tool, NOT a bandaid solution, the only time I use it now is when the girl that walks my dogs takes Misty, she maywalk fine for me now, but she still gets exited and yanks when she sees a park, and a little 11 year old CANNOT handle that lol. when it comes to Halie or GL, I am Haltie all the way, I tried a GL once....Misty had it off it seconds, because it lacks cheek straps, and Misty knows how to pull to get the thing off her nose, so without the cheekstraps she mid as well be wearing a normal collar.

[mike001]

I like the Haltie, Misty has one, and I used it as a training tool, NOT a bandaid solution, the only time I use it now is when the girl that walks my dogs takes Misty, she maywalk fine for me now, but she still gets exited and yanks when she sees a park, and a little 11 year old CANNOT handle that lol. when it comes to Halie or GL, I am Haltie all the way, I tried a GL once....Misty had it off it seconds, because it lacks cheek straps, and Misty knows how to pull to get the thing off her nose, so without the cheekstraps she mid as well be wearing a normal collar.

Cali you've just explained the dowside of haltis or Gentle leaders. The dogs just don't learn. You stated that you use it only for the 11 yr old girl to walk your dog because she still gets excited and pulls. if the dog was really trained that 11 yr old wouldn't have a problem with her pulling, hence the Halti is simply a restraint. Out here people using haltis use them for uncontrollable or aggressive dogs only. If a dog is properly trained, it walks obediently on a flat collar or at least on a choke chain. This is why I love the prongs, there is no yanking, pulling or misbehavior, and the dog can think and learn. In my opinion, the halti simply replaces the muzzle for safety reasons.

[PonyPup]

I like the Haltie, Misty has one, and I used it as a training tool, NOT a bandaid solution, the only time I use it now is when the girl that walks my dogs takes Misty, she maywalk fine for me now, but she still gets exited and yanks when she sees a park, and a little 11 year old CANNOT handle that lol. when it comes to Halie or GL, I am Haltie all the way, I tried a GL once....Misty had it off it seconds, because it lacks cheek straps, and Misty knows how to pull to get the thing off her nose, so without the cheekstraps she mid as well be wearing a normal collar.

Actually, the reason Misty had it off seconds was because you didn't fit the Gentle Leader properly. Headcollars don't really NEED cheek straps.
As for me, I like the Gentle Leader better, because it applies pressure to accupressure points, which calms the dogs down. Maybe Halti does that, too, but I still like GL better. GL is also adjustable, so you can have a custom fit.

[SemaviLady]

What type of accidents if you don't mind me asking. PM me if it's graphic. I was considering that exact harness, but I'd never seen one used, and I knew headcollars worked well. Do you know anyone who's had success with one?

I have a website upon which there is one page that is dedicated to the prong collar. One reader that visited was Bonnie Dalzell (Borzoi) who has done postmortems on dogs and has viewed the results of collar injuries. I'll quote part of what she says here -

As an anatomist and a serious breeder I obtained thorough postmortem reports on many of my Borzois after they passed on and I was surprised to find that a number of them had healed fractures of the lateral bones of the larynx. This sort of injury narrows the opening into the trachea and, in extreme cases, could also produce respiratory insufficiency at heavy exercise.

A lateral radiograph read by some one who knows what they are looking at can reveal these injuries in a living dog.

Haltis and Easy Leaders have the potential to severely injure a dog's neck in the case of an out of control dog who bucks on the Halti. Dogs do not have the massive neck ligamentation of horses and, while their necks are stronger than ours, they still can be injured, especially if suddenly pulled up and back. Haltis do have their place in control of a powerful dog, I regularly use one on one of my best lure coursing Borzoi who has injured his trachea from his enthusiastic attempts to get at the lure while we are waiting for him to have his turn to run. However one needs to be careful that the dog does not get up speed and run to the end of a long leash while in a Halti, because the leverage on the neck that can be exerted by a high speed Halti stop could be very damaging. I would not use one on a dog working on the high obstacles of an agility course because if the dog fell from the A-frame or the elevated walk and was jerked by the Halti it could be severely injured.

In addition I have observed that since Haltis do not deliver much correction, they are good for control but not training.

I have found that a useful tool for leash breaking long necked sighthound pups without neck injury is. . . read the rest here

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Have just "googled" prong collars because I have never seen one and

While I respect everyone's choices on this thread I can't see myself ever using one on Tobey or Archie. Having said that, I am going to put a bit more effort into getting the boys to walk "nicely" instead of just ambling along behind them

[mike001]

Like I said...while they might look barbaric they are much less damaging than chokers and even Gentle leaders or Haltis...IF they are used properly.
But you're absolutely right, hard work is the better choice of any collar.

[mike001]

I'm not a fan of either halti or gentle leader. I have witnessed some not so good things with them. My choice is a prong collar...they do less harm that both and less harm than a choker. They might look medieval but they definitely are not. Once the dog has it on it's like something clicks in and the dog will refuse to pull. But you need to be shown how to use it properly. With a halti or gentle leader the dog never seems to learn and some dogs develop bad sores on their faces from the rubbing.

[critter crazy]

I'm not a fan of either halti or gentle leader. I have witnessed some not so good things with them. My choice is a prong collar...they do less harm that both and less harm than a choker. They might look medieval but they definitely are not. Once the dog has it on it's like something clicks in and the dog will refuse to pull. But you need to be shown how to use it properly. With a halti or gentle leader the dog never seems to learn and some dogs develop bad sores on their faces from the rubbing.

well when Prong collars nor Choke collars worked for my dog, I went with something that did. It causes no pain and he enjoys his walks. Just cause they work for your dogs, does not mean they work for all dogs. Each are different, this is why we have Options!

[Giselle]

Sorry, I'm a flat-buckle type of gal. I only use martingales on Giselle because a regular collar will slip off. If that were not the case with sighthounds, all my dogs would have flat-buckles.

I firmly believe that any and every dog can be taught loose-lead with a simple flat-buckle. The problem is that most people jump ahead of themselves. Before your dog learns to walk nicely outdoors, he has to do it well at home. It's like training Sit. Before your dog can do it in your front yard, he has to learn how to do it in your living room, in your bathroom, in your backyard, and, eventually, you add in distractions. The dog has to learn that there's only one way to walk. In order to teach that, you have to start from the very very very basics. Be consistent, be firm, and be patient. How about exercise Fender a bit before you go on walks so that he's not so amped up? Then, go through your loose-leash routine in your backyard. Work your way up to your front yard. Do some figure 8's down the street, and then go for your walk. Even if you don't make it past the neighbor's house, at least Fender will start to "click" with the idea. Good luck! It can be very hard at first, but the rewards are well worth it!

[xVelvet_FuzzButtx]

I firmly believe that any and every dog can be taught loose-lead with a simple flat-buckle. The problem is that most people jump ahead of themselves. Before your dog learns to walk nicely outdoors, he has to do it well at home. It's like training Sit. Before your dog can do it in your front yard, he has to learn how to do it in your living room, in your bathroom, in your backyard, and, eventually, you add in distractions. The dog has to learn that there's only one way to walk. In order to teach that, you have to start from the very very very basics. Be consistent, be firm, and be patient. How about exercise Fender a bit before you go on walks so that he's not so amped up? Then, go through your loose-leash routine in your backyard. Work your way up to your front yard. Do some figure 8's down the street, and then go for your walk. Even if you don't make it past the neighbor's house, at least Fender will start to "click" with the idea. Good luck! It can be very hard at first, but the rewards are well worth it!

this is EXACTLY what I wanted to say!

We do choose to use harnesses for walks, but our dogs are trained to heel. We first were told by a trainer to get the gentle leader for the malamute, but went onto training. we can speed up(say jog or run) and say "hurry hurry" and when we slow down we use "easy easy" and you have your pup heeling good. we had to practice in petsmart, at our home and on busy street. we actually need to brush up on their skills as we've been slacking on walks.

[mike001]

Sorry, I'm a flat-buckle type of gal. I only use martingales on Giselle because a regular collar will slip off. If that were not the case with sighthounds, all my dogs would have flat-buckles.

I firmly believe that any and every dog can be taught loose-lead with a simple flat-buckle. The problem is that most people jump ahead of themselves. Before your dog learns to walk nicely outdoors, he has to do it well at home. It's like training Sit. Before your dog can do it in your front yard, he has to learn how to do it in your living room, in your bathroom, in your backyard, and, eventually, you add in distractions. The dog has to learn that there's only one way to walk. In order to teach that, you have to start from the very very very basics. Be consistent, be firm, and be patient. How about exercise Fender a bit before you go on walks so that he's not so amped up? Then, go through your loose-leash routine in your backyard. Work your way up to your front yard. Do some figure 8's down the street, and then go for your walk. Even if you don't make it past the neighbor's house, at least Fender will start to "click" with the idea. Good luck! It can be very hard at first, but the rewards are well worth it!

Congratulations Giselle. You seem to know all about dog training. You're right on target about the flat collar, and the reason people have trouble is lack of homework. It was well worded and not defensive which proves your dedication and experience. The reason I prefer the prong for most people is that I have witnessed dogs getting hurt with Gentle leaders, Haltis and especially choke collars. People don't get the message of the "pop". The prong is also my favourite because many people have no strength in their arm, like elderly people or the disabled. Prongs are easy to use, cause no damage and even 75 yr olds can control a rambunctious dog, much to their delight. Thank you for a well worded and honest message.