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**Puckstop31** · 03-17-2007, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Marigold2

Tang, tang ,tang tang. I was looking at all this woman did that was good not just for her family but her country. An intelligent, educated, brave, woman who should have therapy and a second chance. She is not some ganster, drug addict who is a repeat offended with no education. I looked at all she had done in her life, not just one small part of her life. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone needs help at least once or twice in her or his life. This woman can and should be given a second chance. She had done more for this country that most people ever will.

MISTAKES??? Pre-meditated attempted first degree murder is a mistake?

Therapy??? For what?

Action = Consequence. Excuses are like a-holes, everybody has got one and they all stink.

**critter crazy** · 03-17-2007, 10:11 PM

I have never done anything wrong in my life, and have served my country for over 10 yrs. But If I went out and did exactly what she did, I would NOT get a second Chance!! phhhhtttt....she made her bed, now she has to lay in it!

**sparks19** · 03-17-2007, 10:16 PM

The key here is PREMEDITATION. just because she failed doesn't mean we should cut her a break and send her on her way.

**LoudLou** · 03-17-2007, 10:23 PM

I want to know what kind of car she was driving that could go for 900 miles with no pitstops?

**sparks19** · 03-17-2007, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by LoudLou

I want to know what kind of car she was driving that could go for 900 miles with no pitstops?

A darn good one

Maybe she did make gas stops..... or maybe she filled a bunch of gas cans pre trip. who knows

But it would be nice to know what kind of car gets such good mileage

Or she has one of those hybrids and just drove under 40 MPH the whole way so she didn't use gas lol

**wombat2u2004** · 03-18-2007, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by sparks19

The key here is PREMEDITATION. just because she failed doesn't mean we should cut her a break and send her on her way.

Premeditation ??? What did she think she was going to do ???
And failed ??? What did she fail at ???
These are only your assumptions.....based on flimsy so called GREAT evidence....like a number of objects in her car, and the fact that she was hurt enough to drive 900 miles, and a few emails between lovers.
So far all I have heard about premeditation is what YOU think she was going to do....and of course what the MEDIA have suggested.
But yes...I agree that they shouldn't give her a break and cut her free, but how about doing that in line with what she has actually done, and not in line of what people believe she would have done.
I hold to my original idea that all of this is only to find a scapegoat for American people to gloat over. Yeah....she is a clever and successful girl....lets just cut her down.
Wombat

**wombat2u2004** · 03-18-2007, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Puckstop31

MISTAKES??? Pre-meditated attempted first degree murder is a mistake?

Therapy??? For what?

Action = Consequence. Excuses are like a-holes, everybody has got one and they all stink.

Ohhh....puleeeeeeeeze Puckstop !!!!
Premeditated attempted first degree murder ????
May as well get her for premeditated drug running to, due to the fact that she owned a car.
And therapy ??? Well here we go again !!!!! How do you know she doesn't need therapy ??? You wouldn't have a clue !!!!!
Geez....we are all doing a lot of guesswork today.....and we've got her all but hung already.
Wombat

**Puckstop31** · 03-18-2007, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

Ohhh....puleeeeeeeeze Puckstop !!!!
Premeditated attempted first degree murder ????
May as well get her for premeditated drug running to, due to the fact that she owned a car.
And therapy ??? Well here we go again !!!!! How do you know she doesn't need therapy ??? You wouldn't have a clue !!!!!
Geez....we are all doing a lot of guesswork today.....and we've got her all but hung already.
Wombat

Look, I read two articles about this. I skipped over the biased stuff and looked at the facts. After thinking about it and realizing the equipment she had on her at the time she committed the crime....

She knew exactly what she was doing/going to do. In my opinion, she was going to murder that person. Hence what she ended up doing was pre-meditated ATTEMPTED First Degree Murder.

Fine, give her therapy after she is in jail. Will we ever stop making excuses for bad behavior in our society?

**wombat2u2004** · 03-18-2007, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Puckstop31

Look, I read two articles about this. I skipped over the biased stuff and looked at the facts. After thinking about it and realizing the equipment she had on her at the time she committed the crime....

She knew exactly what she was doing/going to do. In my opinion, she was going to murder that person. Hence what she ended up doing was pre-meditated ATTEMPTED First Degree Murder.

Fine, give her therapy after she is in jail. Will we ever stop making excuses for bad behavior in our society?

The facts ???? Ohhhh......you mean what you read. What the media reported...yes ??? Come on now Puck.....you should know better than that.
For your information.....the reason why she has been charged with premeditated first degree murder (but not convicted mind you...just charged) was due to the fact that the public prosecutor did not like what the judge originally doled out to her.....nope....not enough to give her a bail and anklet condition. So they trumped up another charge so that she would be locked up...based on circumstantial evidence mind you.
It isn't my place, or yours, or anyone else's on this board to condemn anyone on circumstantial evidence. I don't care if the lady had a cannon on her...it doesn't send the message to me that she was going to use it.
You know what is going to happen to her ???? I'll tell you........all these silly little bunch of charges that the prosecutors have painstakingly gone through their law manuals to gather will all be quashed. Yep....she will get assault for the pepper spray....thats it.
And in my opinion.........that is all she deserves.
I feel very sorry for this lady, she hasn't committed any crime other than petty assault.....probably no more than any of us here on this board have done in their lives. I've punched a guy out for stealing my girlfriend in my younger days, and I haven't been nailed to a cross for that.
It's a little thing called BREAKDOWN old mate....I'm pretty sure that most people here know what I am talking about.
Wombat

**sparks19** · 03-18-2007, 12:24 PM

Ok Wombat... what to you consititutes premeditated attempted murder or kidnapping for that matter? What kind of proof do you need to suggest that it was premeditated attempted murder?

Actually I can't say I have EVER just punched someone out or assaulted someone. I have NEVER started a fight in my life. I may have finished a few but I NEVER threw the first punch. lol. I'm just not of the frame of mind that anyone that just wants to start a fight with me is worth breaking a bone or getting a record over. I will always talk first... sometimes that works and gives the person enough time to think this might not be a good idea. other times I talk and wait for them to throw the first punch.... my punch after that becomes self defense

Driving 900 miles to assault someone, TO ME, is not just petty assault..... that shows A LOT of premeditation. The woman in that car feared for her life and even though she couldn't really see she managed to get her car into gear and get some help. AGAIN, I am willing to concede the attempted murder thing.... but petty assault? not so much IMO.

If I drove 900 miles.... put on a disguise and stalked someone.... followed them to their car and then assaulted them.... I would not get a petty assault charge lol

P.S- YOu shouldn't have been angry at that guy for "stealing" your g/f.... you should have been angry at your g/f for being too cowardly to tell you she was leaving. No one truly "steals" a b/f or g/f from you.... it is just that the b/f or g/f was a coward and didn't want to tell you right away that they wanted out.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 03-18-2007, 01:19 PM

How interesting.....

The same people who have accused the media of incompetence, inaccuracy and even blatant distortion...are now determined of the guilt of someone based on a reading/listening of the same media.

And one who reminded us, when accusations were made of service personnel in Iraq....the presumption of innocence....now has this person on the rocks!

I say, let a jury of her peers make a decision based on the evidence presented in a court of law.

And I have found the media in this case more interested in her sanitation methods than anything else.

**sparks19** · 03-18-2007, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

How interesting.....

The same people who have accused the media of incompetence, inaccuracy and even blatant distortion...are now determined of the guilt of someone based on a reading/listening of the same media.

And one who reminded us, when accusations were made of service personnel in Iraq....the presumption of innocence....now has this person on the rocks!

I say, let a jury of her peers make a decision based on the evidence presented in a court of law.

And I have found the media in this case more interested in her sanitation methods than anything else.

One day your eyes are gonna get stuck like that

**Lady's Human** · 03-18-2007, 02:12 PM

ES,

There's a difference between the Marines who were charged for what happened at Haditha and what has happened with Cpt. Nowak.

CPT Nowak was apprehended immediately after assaulting someone in a parking lot. There are no major differences in the reports of what happened, and the majority of information in the stories about it came from a press conference with the sheriff's department.

The Haditha incident, however, was reported and investigated months after it happened, and was based on information from people who have no reason to give positive information about US forces actions in Iraq. The Press and some in Congress were pushing for indictments before the official investigation (which was ongoing at the time the story broke) was completed, as in before the facts of the case were known. While the subsequent investigation has shown that indeed there were murders committed, the pressure from the press and Congress almost guaranteed a conviction before the evidence had even been reviewed. Those Marines would have likely been convicted of SOMETHING regardless of the facts in the case. If they had been acquitted of all charges, even if the investigation had shown they did nothing wrong, there would have been hell to pay.

Comparing what CPT Nowak did with the Haditha murders is comparing apples to oranges, especially when you consider the convoluted nature of the military justice system.

**wombat2u2004** · 03-18-2007, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by sparks19

One day your eyes are gonna get stuck like that

Hehehehe.....maybe it's one of those twitch things some people get. LOLOL
Wom

**lizbud** · 03-18-2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

The facts ???? Ohhhh......you mean what you read. What the media reported...yes ??? Come on now Puck.....you should know better than that.
For your information.....the reason why she has been charged with premeditated first degree murder (but not convicted mind you...just charged) was due to the fact that the public prosecutor did not like what the judge originally doled out to her.....nope....not enough to give her a bail and anklet condition. So they trumped up another charge so that she would be locked up...based on circumstantial evidence mind you.
It isn't my place, or yours, or anyone else's on this board to condemn anyone on circumstantial evidence. I don't care if the lady had a cannon on her...it doesn't send the message to me that she was going to use it.
You know what is going to happen to her ???? I'll tell you........all these silly little bunch of charges that the prosecutors have painstakingly gone through their law manuals to gather will all be quashed. Yep....she will get assault for the pepper spray....thats it.
And in my opinion.........that is all she deserves.
I feel very sorry for this lady, she hasn't committed any crime other than petty assault.....probably no more than any of us here on this board have done in their lives. I've punched a guy out for stealing my girlfriend in my younger days, and I haven't been nailed to a cross for that.
It's a little thing called BREAKDOWN old mate....I'm pretty sure that most people here know what I am talking about.
Wombat

Wombat, I don't think this kid has lived long enough to realise how
adults think. To live a life and never need forgiveness. How extraordinary.