Say No To Silver Labs

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

Torner are you a breeder? I'd like to see some of your dogs if you are. I don't like to be a judge of any breeder if I can't see what they have to offer.

I DON'T SEE WHY NOT. BUT ALSO, I DON'T SEE WHY YOU SHOULD HAVE TO "JUDGE" ME AS A BREEDER...IT'S FINE I GUESS, IF THAT'LL MAKE YOU MORE INTERESTED ON THE BREED.

[.sarah]

Ugh, Silver Labs is one of my pet peeves, because people are less inclined to listen because they say that it's "just another color" -- and they don't always believe you when you explain why it's not. In most of the "Silver Labs" I have seen, they have looked more like Weims. They seem to have pointy noses and a more sleek build than any Lab should. I think in some ways this is worse than a "Doodle dog" because they are passing them off as purebreds, and people become so misinformed and then don't want to believe the truth.

IRescue, this is not a color that is genetically produced by Labs. They come in three colors (black, yellow, chocolate) and only three colors. Sometimes mis-marks crop up, like brindling, white marks, tan points, etc. but even then it's usually only a patch instead of an entire brindle dog or something of the like. I have seen a few Chocolate Labs with tan points, and even so it was *very* hard to see, you almost have to see the sun reflect off of it. My two girls are both examples of "unaccepted" pigment that is naturally produced. They are yellows with a chocolate dog's pigment -- instead of a black nose and black skin, it is chocolate/liver. Also, Luka has a chocolate patch on her front right leg, which is a mismark.

TORNER RETRIEVERS, welcome to Pet Talk! Your Labs are beautiful! Labs are one of my two favorite breeds (my other being the Great Dane) and I own two myself. They are both in my signature. Nova (light yellow) is 10 months old and Luka (dark yellow) is almost 2 years old. Nova is from a back yard breeder. I regret buying from them but don't regret my girl. She is the best thing that has happened to me, and she is just so smart and so well-mannered. She does have hip dysplasia, though, as well as allergies. We adopted Luka in November from the humane society. They are both from hunting lines so of course don't fit the breed standard. I also have a White German Shepherd/Pit Bull mix named Mandy, and she is 8 years old.

[Suki Wingy]

I like your dog! Nice Stock That is why I prefer show bred over field bred

[.sarah]

I like your dog! Nice Stock That is why I prefer show bred over field bred

Why? ... Because of the way they look? Sorry I don't understand

[Suki Wingy]

I just like the chunky and stockyness in labs, that is what I grew up seeing, so I guess that is why I like them more. I never liked the personality ofthe labs too much, but I like the look of the stocky ones better.

[.sarah]

I just like the chunky and stockyness in labs, that is what I grew up seeing, so I guess that is why I like them more. I never liked the personality ofthe labs too much, but I like the look of the stocky ones better.

Ah, okay. I'm the opposite. In addition to personality and drive, I prefer the look of field Labs. To each his own.

[CagneyDog]

NO ONE HAS EVER DOCUMENTED HAVING A SILVER LAB FROM PUREBRED LABRADORS

Actually, I believe there has been. As far as I know their diluted choclates.

[sammy101]

As far as I know their diluted choclates.

yes that is always what i heard. some i see dont look like weims at all?
these ones look very much lab to me
http://www.silverlabs.com/gallery.htm

[CagneyDog]

DNA testing has been done to prove they are pure bred. They've also studied the genetic makeup and have ruled out that Wemenier are cross bred in them. AKC accepts them as chocolate labs.

[emilysgk]

I can see it in them dogs from the gallery posted. There heads are not quite right, and the ears. I somewhat see the difference in the bodies also. To some, a lab is a lab is a lab, but the people who know differently are looking at more specific points on the dog that are not right. If all the silver labs were the *charcoal* variety...then maybe it would be much more believable that they came from nothing but pure labs. It looks to me like some are getting smart with it and have breed just right with enough generations that they are starting to look really close to the real thing. How do you think new breeds and colors were ever created? You keep breeding them the way you want them, with enough time, no fail you get your desired result. Its not there at all yet. To preserve the lab as it should be, this needs to stop. Unfortunatly, most typical pet owner know nothing about breeding, nor the standards a dog should fit, and a large majority may not even care. They want what they want. This is much worse than the cross breeds being sold, the doodles and such, because they are being passed as pure.

I dont agree with people buying up the fancy new mixes, but at least they are being sold as what they are. Then again I could be way off...how can something be this bad, and go this far, and the AKC never be able to find a way to stop it? There are a lot of rules with breeders, and with trouble afoot your not going to be able to register your pups.... so I am undecided in that manner. But I do agree that the labs certainly look mixed to me.

[.sarah]

DNA testing has been done to prove they are pure bred.

That is not true. DNA testing cannot prove breed. If they were cross-bred with Weim in most cases it was too far back to prove the breed (the parents would be dead, all DNA testing can do is prove the parents).

They've also studied the genetic makeup and have ruled out that Wemenier are cross bred in them. AKC accepts them as chocolate labs.

Not saying you're wrong, but where did you read this? I have seen everything say the exact opposite. As far as I know they are *still* studying to try to prove or disprove the Wiem is in them. AKC accepts them as Chocolate Labs because silver is not an approved color and breeders say that they are dilute chocolate. AKC does not look at the puppies that are registered, therefor you could easily pass a silver as chocolate on registration papers, the same way I could have marked Nova as a black or chocolate -- they'd have never known. If you look in the breed standard, chocolate is described as "light to dark chocolate", not "dilute chocolate" (silver).

these ones look very much lab to me
http://www.silverlabs.com/gallery.htm

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Labs. I am very familiar though I wouldn't call myself an expert (by no means could I judge them in conformation!) but those dogs definetly don't look like Labs to me. To an untrained eye, yes, I can see where they would look like a Lab. But they look very unproportional in head to body ratio, and their heads just ... aren't right. They still look Weim-ish to me, and that's really the only way I can explain it.

emilysgk, I agree with what you said completely!

[AllAmericanPUP]

I DO NOT agree with breeding silver labs, they shouldnt be bred and they certainly shouldnt be bred for money like these breeders are doing.

labs can come in alot of mismarks
i think there was a link posted about mismarked labs on here? or maybe that was a different board...

here is something on black and tan labs
http://cdc.guidingeyes.org/Adoptions/pdf2.pdf

and here is a site about other mismarks
http://www.blueknightlabs.com/mismarks/

[.sarah]

Here are two more links for mismarks if anyone is interested.
Mismarks 1 & Mismarks 2

Also, a link from the same website about Silver Labs
The Truth Behind "Silver" Labradors

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

TORNER RETRIEVERS, welcome to Pet Talk! Your Labs are beautiful! Labs are one of my two favorite breeds (my other being the Great Dane) and I own two myself. They are both in my signature. Nova (light yellow) is 10 months old and Luka (dark yellow) is almost 2 years old. Nova is from a back yard breeder. I regret buying from them but don't regret my girl. She is the best thing that has happened to me, and she is just so smart and so well-mannered. She does have hip dysplasia, though, as well as allergies. We adopted Luka in November from the humane society. They are both from hunting lines so of course don't fit the breed standard. I also have a White German Shepherd/Pit Bull mix named Mandy, and she is 8 years old.

THANKS FOR THE WELCOMING SARAH. I'M GLAD YOU LIKED MY DOGS. I ALSO HAVE A GIRL BOUGHT FROM A BACKYARD BREEDER. SHE IS THE FIRST LAB I PURCHASED AND SHE MADE ME FALL IN LOVE WITH THE BREED. NOW I LOVE SHOWING AND BREEDING BETTER DOGS.

BY THE WAY, YOUR GIRLS ARE LOVELY.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

DNA testing has been done to prove they are pure bred. They've also studied the genetic makeup and have ruled out that Wemenier are cross bred in them. AKC accepts them as chocolate labs.

SOME RESPONSES TO SOME OF THE SILVER LABRADOR CLAIMS
One of the Silver breeders state on their site:

"Are Silver Labs Pure bred Labrador Retriever?
DNA testing and mapping of silver labs was done during the close of the Twentieth Century and meticulous investigation of each silver labs ancestry was conducted by investigators from AKC"

The current DNA testing doesn't prove the dog is a purebred Labrador. The DNA testing available only proves that dog A and that dog B are the parents of dog C. No where does it prove that the one or more of the grandparents of dog A wasn't a weim or a weim cross.

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Also one states:

"Silver Labs are pure bred Labrador Retrievers and their ancestry is beyond reproach. Fortunately, kennel clubs around the world do not have the political pressure from mercenary American breeders of "normal" colored labs and already accept silver labs without all the political fuss and pressure being applied to AKC "

Sorry but there isn't a kennel club in the world that recognizes silver Labradors. In every Labrador standard used throughout the world, it states that Labradors come in black, yellow and chocolate.

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This one was a laugher:

"There is no doubt the increase in popularity and demand for Silver Labs is applying significant financial pressure to breeders of black and yellow labs, but there is also little doubt that AKC will eventually have to succumb to the pressure to make silver a recognized color in America."

First of all, the AKC doesn't make the decision on what colors are recognized for each breed. The PARENT CLUB of each breed makes and sets the standards. I can guarantee you that it will be a cold day in you-know-where before the LRC, Inc. would ever recognize this color.

Second of all, as to the "significant financial pressure" that I and other breeders of the "real" colors of Labradors are under - BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! A responsible breeder never breeds for a "color" nor does one breed because of financial reasons. Most responsible breeders don't worry about profit. Why? Because we rarely if ever make one and we do not breed for financial gain.

So you can see that all these claims by the Silver Lab people are far-fetched at best.