Conflicting decision

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by mary_jsn
I would defenitely spay her. I wouldn't get another litter 'cause if you can't get rid of the puppies after they have been separated from their mother then you would have to cope to feed more mouths than you already feed. Also what would happen if you get an unwanted pregnancy? i mean she gets pregnant with another male instead the one you want her to reproduce with. You would enjoy Dixie to the best. You wouldn't have to lock her up and clean blood stains all over the house. Also you would be free of dogs waiting at your front door trying to matewith her.
Many unwanted puppies have been left in shelters 'cause of unwanted pregnancies.

Mary_jsn,
Thank you for your response. There is not a problem with people wanting one of Dixie's puppies. I bred her to a champion who's father was the 3rd most winning Golden in the history of the breed. I interviewed 56 people who wanted one of her pups and narrowed it down to the 9 that did get them. The other stuff is a consideration but since we didn't have Dusty at that time it was easy to do. She didn't have to be locked up. However, now that he is here I would have to find a way to separate them if I did breed again. More than likely I would have a relative keep Dusty during the fertile period. But I do believe getting her spayed is the right answer. It just makes the decision so FINAL!

[mary_jsn]

I'm happy that you chose the right decision. However if your desire to have another litter is too strong then don't spay her. It's more important your opnion than ours. Think about it a lot look a the good and bad sides about spaying Dixie. Just because people say that you spay Dixie it doesn't mean you have to.

[AdoreMyDogs]

Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer


Some of you brought tears to my eyes with your thoughts. Especially Leslie when she said she would want one of Dixie's pups if I did have another litter. What a high compliment since I know how much Graham is loved. Leslie, when you do want another pup and if it's a Golden let me know because I know many people who breed reputably for the betterment of the breed.

Hi Candice,

I am hoping to get a golden or a GSD (depending on what my heart tells me when the time comes) this summer or early fall. I have absolutely no desire to show in confirmation, but the thought of showing in obedience is something that I am really interested in. I will absolutely not breed, and the pup will be spayed at 6 months, or when the vet gives the OK to spay, and I want a female. I can't afford to spend a huge amount on a pup (a breeder of GSD's that I am REALLY interested charges $3000 for puppies) but I know that quality does not come cheap, I just don't want to be paying for a show champ since I am not going to do confirmation. I want a pet, not a show champ, but I want a very willing and eager dog who is very easy to train.

Believe it or not, I was looking in a Dog World magazine and I saw an add for GR pups that were bred for huge size! I don't agree with that! They were not advertising the temperment, intelligence, or show champs that they had, they were advertising HUGE pups! That made me want to only go through a breeder that I knew and trusted. A breeder who bred for all the good qualities and as close to the standard as possible...not for huge size!

I will let you know when we get a house and my husband and I are ready. The only reason I decided to get another dog while I still have Graham, is that he is showing so much interest in the dogs here at the apartment that I live at. He is making alot of friends and he's starting to look forward to seeing his doggie friends outside so he can play. I am going to take him to doggie daycare one day a week (can't afford any more days per week) once his leg heals up and so he can get used to being around other dogs more often.

Anyway, I totally respect your breeding standards and morals, and I would ONLY want to buy a golden from someone as wonderful as you. Good luck getting Dixie spayed. It's the loving thing to do

[Dixieland Dancer]

She is my heart dog and I love her more than I can possibly relay in words. I do not want to let anything (even having puppies) come between her and the rest of our lives together! She gave me a beautiful boy to love. And who knows, if I use Dusty as a stud perhaps I can keep one of the puppies from his litter!

Thanks again everyone for your input. I am comfortable with the decision now. YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!!!!!

[mugsy]

I agree, but then, I think that ALL dogs should be spayed or neutered. If it was difficult on Dixie, I don't think there should be a discussion about it...I'm sure she will thank you!!! I know it's hard, but Dixie will be happier, I'm sure. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by mugsy
If it was difficult on Dixie, I don't think there should be a discussion about it...

I agree! But her pregnancy was so picture perfect with no complications. She delivered on her due date, we delivered 10 pups in 3 1/2 hours (very fast delivery), and she was the perfect momma! What I meant was that it aged her a little more rapidly than if she didn't have babies but this would happen to any dog. She bounced back just fine after the pups went home and after Dusty lost his puppy teeth! She play wrestled with him nonstop and had little scabs all over her head from his very sharp puppy teeth.

I would not even consider breeding her again if she had a complicated pregnancy the first time around! It was so perfect though that I got spoiled into thinking how easy this is. I think because she is a very athletic dog, it made it easy. She was active up to the day she delivered.

I may do it again someday with another dog but Dixie has done her part!

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Candy, I'm glad that you made the choice that you did! Spaying is the right choice! Good luck!

Love,
Sarah & Sadie

[shais_mom]

Well, Candy. I think you are more educated in this than me. But I would definately spay her. Keegan has her appt for the end of Feb. The health problems related to intact females are just too numerous. Goldens have such a high tumor and cancer and health problem, I don't want to add to her chances. My parents neighbor have an 8yo(i think) golden who has had over 40 puppies and they just got a puppy 4 weeks older than Keegan and she is going to be bred also.. I don't agree with this,which is exactly why Keegan isn't going to have any. I don't want to deal with it, don't have the room, and myself am not educated enough in the area.
And since Keegan doesn't come from the Champion bloodlines like Dixie and Dusty, and I have no desire to show her or anything, there really is no reason to breed her,I wouldn't be doing anything for the Golden breed itself.
There is a really good article in the latest Dog Fancy about why breeders are needed. To make sure the best traits of the breed are passed on, which you did when you bred her the first time.
Since she is your heart dog, and you want her around for a good long time, definately spay her.
Let us know your decision so we can keep her in our prayers!

[mugsy]

I have a question for people who show dogs. Why is it that you can't show a dog that has been spayed or neutered? That never made sense to me, but I would be interested in knowing what the reasoning is behind that. Thanks!!

[Karen]

From what I've read, the whole purpose being showing a dog is to promote the breed, and to breed dogs who are perfect examples of that breed. So if you remove the ability to reproduce, you can then do nothing to forward the breed, so what's the point of saying "This - this is a perfect Golden Retreiver! This is the dog I want to mate mine with."

Still, I think they should just split every show into two - for the breeding dogs, and the non-breeding "just for the glory and fun of showing" dogs!

[K9karen]

Dear Candance:
I know you've made your decision, but another vote of confidence
can't hurt. I think spaying Dixie is a loving, selfless act. It shows how much she means to you. I mean, breeding her again would result in another magnifient litter, and I too, like Stacey, would contact you if and when I get another retreiver, but I would rather have your beautiful girl around for a long, long, time. I think once was enough, and her lineage will always be carried on.
You know how I adore your furkids. They are awesome. You have done such an incredible job with them and I am so envious cause I was so dumb and naive (tho Cody turned out surprisingly ok). I swear my next will be a therapy dog as I've seen the wonders that they perform.
And you are a loving person..it's so obvious after all this time of knowing you. I'm glad your're back, if only spiratically cause you've always been here for others so i'm glad we can be here for you!
Hugs...
Karen

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by mugsy
I have a question for people who show dogs. Why is it that you can't show a dog that has been spayed or neutered? That never made sense to me, but I would be interested in knowing what the reasoning is behind that. Thanks!!

When you are talking about showing a dog, the terminology "SHOWING" is assumed to be someone showing a dog for conformation or for their looks. As Karen stated you are showing in the hopes of having the perfect specimen of your breed. If you have the perfect specimen then it is a possibility that you will want to pass on the traits for the betterment of the breed. Most people who do not have this desire do not want to show in conformation. Conformation shows are very political and expensive. Your dog is scutinized for all kinds of traits such as eye set, topline, how they stack, teeth, coat, weight, height, temperment, gait, stop etc.... Non of this provides value other than the ability to say I have a perfect specimen and he/she is available for the betterment of the breed. The judge's sole job is to pick the dog that most embodies the standard for its breed over all the others of the same breed entered. It comes down to a judges opinion. I would of never bred Dixie to a dog that did not embody the breed standard in every way. And because of the exceptional bloodlines of both parents, we had a waiting list of people wanting our pups before we even knew if the breeding was successful or not.

Just a note.... Dixie is not a conformation standard dog. Her coat is not as long and thick as the standard calls for and the pigment in her nose is not real black. She does tend to get snow nose. Her strong line comes from a working background of Field trial champions and Obedience trial champions although her father was a show champion. These are traits that I was looking to pass on to her pups! Strong, athletic, hard working, intelligent, even temperment pups. and that is what we got!!!!!

A spayed or neutered dog is able to show in other venues with no physical consideration of the dog. They can compete in obedience, herding, agility, tracking, or any other recognized AKC event. Even dogs that have ILP numbers can compete in these events. These concentrate on what you have taught your dog and are more for enjoyment of the relationship between dog and handler. They are less political.

I have never done conformation but have done obedience, agility, and hunt tests. I will be doing conformation with Dusty after he gets a little older because I believe he is a perfect specimen and I would like to continue the exceptional lines he comes from.

Mugsy, I hope this answered your question. I tend to ramble sometimes.

[mugsy]

Thanks!!! I agree with the political part...I can tell that just from watching the shows on TV. So many of those people are sooooo presumptuous. Now I understand about that. But, that brought another question to mind. Why is a dog considered "ruined" if it breeds with another breed and produces a litter of Heinz57s, or breeds with a member of the same breed that doesn't quite measure up? I'm sooo ignorant about matters such as these...I just usually stay with my rescue stuff, which I am STILL ignorant about most of it. I appreciate the time taken to answer my questions...I always know I can count on Pet Talk to answer my questions.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by mugsy
that brought another question to mind. Why is a dog considered "ruined" if it breeds with another breed and produces a litter of Heinz57s, or breeds with a member of the same breed that doesn't quite measure up?

Mugsy, I am not sure where the assumption that a dog is "ruined" if it breeds with another breed or a member of the same breed that doesn't quite measure up came from. I do not feel that way at all and don't know anyone else who does either.

If by "ruined" you are referring to the fact that they can not be shown in the breed ring, I can only say that the minority can. There are more dogs registered with the AKC that are not breed standard perfect than there are that are. Many of them compete in many avenues of dog related fancies. My Dixie is one of them. She would not make it in the breed ring but excels in obedience, field, and agility.

In some ways the Heinz 57s are healthier and less prone to breed problems because they are not subjected to the unethical imbreeding that some breeders do for the almighty dollar they get from selling dogs "with papers". These kind of breeders introduce weakness into the breed and actually do more harm than good to the purebred dog. But not all breeders are unethical.

In short, just because a dog can not be shown in breed does not make them "ruined". It just means they can not be shown in the breed ring. All of my dogs have been pets first and working in different venues with them has just been the icing on the cake. If someone has a dog that loves them unconditionally no matter what the breed, perfection, or mix then they are truly blessed!

I'll use this analogy to close: Because you drive a car, you do not have to race in NASCAR. Because you own a dog, you do not have to show your dog in Conformation. It's only a small percentage that actually do.

I hope this has answered your question. Let me know if you have any others.