Protectiveness

[purrley]

JENN - good for you and Duncan!!!! $100.00 consultation - WOW I'm I in the wrong business - I knew that anyway

[carrie]

COME ON NOW!!!

You and me both know that you can do this.

You are nearly there on your own - you almost know what needs to be done.

You are getting into the foggy area of how you feel about the dog in human terms and what you know the dog needs as a dog. We have spoken of this.
You have a dog that is in need of quick and strong direction.

I KNOW that you have the right insight - you have the right instincts - you KNOW that this dog, at the moment, can not be your pampered pooch.

You are trying to do three things with the dog and I KNOW that you know how to fix this!


From tomorrow, treat the dog as a dog. He can only be your best dog friend - not your best human friend - and only when he behaves like a dog!
Look in the eating problem discussion and follow the suggestions - especially the eating out of the plate first.
Ignore the dog at ALL times - until it has settled for at least ten minutes - that is , laid down and not looking at you. Then ask it to come, ask for a sit - if it does give a small reward and then ignore (keep off the food rewards, use gentle,calm voice and a gentle stroke - limit the praise to the action - sitting is easy so low grade praise).
Your room mate must also see how serious this has become and you MUST have her help in sorting this out.


This is a dominance issue - methods that state they will correct an over protective dog may work but they do not get to the core of the problem.
Anyone who is not prepared to show you how to correct this dog in a physical manner, properly, is wasting your time and money in my opinion.
You will see results with positive only training - but you really need to have a back up plan with a dog like this and you need to know how to do it fairly.

I say again - you can do it!
I wish I was there!!!!

Also - thinking of you - remember to learn something every day!
In one way you are unlucky to get such a dominant and unsocialised dog.....in another it is a sign that if you can sort this out - and YOU can - it will change your life.

Any time, anything, whatever - if you want to ask a "dumb" question or have a moan - if you are feeling bad, good - anything...email me, private message me - you are too good to let one hard dog stop you!

[jennifert]

Carrie, Thank you so much for the encouragement!!! Pleae don't get mad at me!! I went home last night and watched Duncan rather than interacted with him. He is so BOLD! And remember when you asked if Jack was destroying things in the house or biting himself? Well, I got home last night and there was garbage strewn all over the house and Duncan was in his crate....So it's started.... My roommate is not being supportive. She refuses to "play along" and Jack is suffering. Duncan bosses him around almost constantly now, in and out of the house. Anyway, I called an animal behaviorist named Eric Louis. He runs a place called Seven Valley Pet Services. My vet recommended him and he seems really nice. I tried to explain everything on the phone just now but it's so hard.... I made an appointment with him for Saturday February 16th at 9:30. He's coming to the house to meet Duncan, Kate, Jack and I. I wish it was sooner but he is booked for this coming weekend. Thanks again for the help, advice and encouragement! I'm sure I will learn a LOT from this experience! I'll keep everyone posted!

[Dixieland Dancer]

Jennifert, You are doing the right thing. While I'm sure it's not something you are looking forward to doing, realizing it is something you must do and going through it shows how much you love Duncan!

Just as Carrie said, YOU CAN DO IT! One thing you may want to do now too is to put Duncan at the end of the recognition list. When you get home go about your business of greeting everyone in your home but Duncan. Wait about 10 minutes or so and then if he is calm, acknowledge him with a calm greeting. Show him NO favoritism. Feed him last, talk to him last, DON'T let him sleep in your bed!

Keep us posted on what the behavorist says and most of all GOOD LUCK! You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

[DoggiesAreTheBest]

Jenni, I just now got to reading your post. I am so sorry you are having to go through this, but am confident that you will succeed. You love Duncan so much and he loves you back. He will be eager to please you and training will help you both.

I was having issues with Drake being aggressive and went to a trainer. I had to make arrangements to leave work early every Tuesday and drove for about an hour to go to the classes. Not to mention the bundle of $$$$ I had to pay.

I was in denial for the longest time and with the encouragment and comment of some Pet Talkers, I admitted we had a problem. It didn't help that Drake is almost my size and so much stronger than me. after a few months of meeting and working with a behaviorist/trainer, things were much better.

Drake is still protective of me, but is much less aggressive. I am always ready for anything he may do. When we are out in public, I am sure that he can not be hurt or hurt anyone. It has been difficult for me since Andrew had been the ALPHA and we had to reverse roles with Drake coz Andrew was leaving.

Once again, don't be sad or discouraged. You are doing what is best for Duncan. Good luck and let us know how things go!

[carrie]

Hopefully when your room mate hears what the behaviourist has to say she will see things differently.

Give yourself a BIG treat today - you deserve it! You should be feeling really proud of yourself for taking control of a very difficult situation like you have. (I am feeling really proud of you!) You have a fantastic drive to do the very best for these dogs and they are very lucky that you are there for them.

Well done - I am looking forward to hearing about your progress.

Now - go treat yourself!

[Logan]

Jenn, I have nothing to add but compliments to you for realizing that there is a problem and taking the appropriate steps to remedy it. I know, without a doubt, that you love your Duncan (almost called him Drake ) . I'm with you in spirit.

Logan

[sabies]

Keep in mind this whole time that Duncan is a dog and you have to think the way he does. I had trouble with Sadie eating - I thought she didn't like her food, or she was upset about something and needed hugs or she wouldn't eat. I was wrong - she didn't eat cause she is submissive and will not eat when I am in the room. So I ignored her (thanks to Carrie's suggestions), it felt rude, but it wasn't - she ate well.

My point is, be careful how you interpret Duncan's feelings - learn to think like a dog. Don't feel bad if you have to act "heartless" or "uncaring" - Duncan is not going to think you don't care! It helped me when I realized that.

[LoudLou]

HANG-IN THERE! We are all here for you. Your doing great.

[jennifert]

Well, First I want to apologize for the delay in getting back and posting an update on the situation with Duncan! I no longer have access to a home computer and it's been crazy here at work. I also went to Florida for a week to visit family so I haven't had too much progress to report until recently. He is doing fantastic so far!! I have nothing but optimism and hope for the future!
The behaviorist/trainer came and stayed for about 2 hours at the house. My roommate learned quite a bit I think!!! This man is a fan of the Gentle Leader as a training tool. I had one for Duncan and have used it with him on walks for a while now because he is so strong, he has actually pulled me down in the street trying to chase something! Anyway, we put it on him and he showed me something really interesting: (Carrie, you've probably seen this before!!) He had Duncan sit next to him with the gentle leader on and had my roommate Kate and I walk around, knock on the walls, open and shut the front door, let jack in and out etc. The whole time he made Duncan sit. Duncan of course, kept trying to get up and Eric would pull on the lead and tell him to sit immediately. THEN!, the interesting part, Duncan started to lie down!! And my initial thought was "Oh good, that's even better, maybe he's calming down and realizing that he has to stay right there while the rest of us run around the house trying to distract him!" But then Eric pointed out to me (duh!) that HE didn't ASK Duncan to lie down!!!!!!!!! Duncan just decided that since he couldnt' stand up, he would try an alternate plan and lie down!!! Isn't that amazing!!! He's so smart, he's just stubborn, like his Mom!! He has made HUGE advances with his training now! He will heel and sit down when I stop. He will lie down and stay and I can step right over him. He still needs work on so many other things but I am so proud of him. He learns what I want so fast and does it so well!!!! I need to work more with him on coming when called, especially outside at the trail we go to and on sitting and staying when I open the front door to let Jack in or out.
And the aggressive behavior, the one you've all been waiting for I'm sure!! ):
He still doesn't like when people reach out towards me, for ex. to shake my hand or hand me something. And he still leaps at the neighbors and snarls and growls. BUT, we're taking baby steps and getting better. He will walk down the street now and if people pass us, I make him sit and talk to him and he pays attn to me rather than them! (I even had people comment on how well behaved he is!!) I've been trying the command "friends" with him when someone walks up to me. I haven't had the opportunity to practice it too much yet but will start involving the neighbors one the weather gets warmer and people are outside more.
As for the short roommate of my EX-boyfriend, he is no longer an issue since, the boyfriend is now ex! But it looks like we are on the path to a better well- behaved, well-rounded dog! In fact, now I feel like I should look for more tricks and activities for him because I don't want him to get bored! I have to go now, I'll update on how Jack is handling all this in a few...

[carrie]

I am so pleased for you! It makes all the difference having someone there to demonstrate and explain in person, I hope it really helped your room mate.
Can't wait to hear more!

[DoggiesAreTheBest]

Jenni,

Hope you had a great time in FL. I know that Duncan missed you. I was so happy to read about your progress with Duncan. It is great news! Things will only get better, I am sure. Keep up the good work!

[jennifert]

I just reread my post and realized that I left out an important part! When Duncan tried to lie down, Eric did not LET him because Duncan was making the decision to lie down, not Eric and Eric was the boss! Duncan was just trying to get out of doing what he had been told by trying an alternate to standing up and since he was told to SIT, he needed to remain sitting. Carrie, this goes back to the decision making that Duncan was doing. iI says a lot for his intelligence that he tries one thing and rather than keep trying it and failing, he tries other things. But again, he was making a decision rather than following his leader.
So that said, maybe that whole thing makes sense now from a training perspective!!

[yorkster]

Yeah for you and Duncan, Jenifer!
You are doing the right thing and doing it well, it sounds like.
Be sure to keep us posted.

I know what you mean about your dog doing something that THEY decide is what they want.....when you're tyring to correct a problem:
My dog, Scout, likes to bark alot in the car. I started carrying a water-spray bottle around with me, and give a good squirt when she acts-up. What she started doing is making a whole lot of noise WITHOUT actually opening her mouth or barking.
It's amazing the noise she can make that way! I think she is thinking "well, I'm not barking!"

Congrats to you & Duncan.

[carrie]

Yes , this is why it is much better if the dog decides that you are a better leader, rather than try to force the fact that you are Alpha onto the dog. If you can get the dog to choose you as the leader you are already winning. Insisting, calmly and quietly, that a sit is what you asked for and nothing else is good enough reinforces standards and authourity - how many people would let it go when the dog lay down? He is staying in one place and is quiet, so what's the problem?
I'm so happy you have found a behaviourist that you can work with so well.