who here is against breeders (all animals?)

[catnapper]

Like the othes, I am not totally agaianst breeding as a "career" --- I say "career" because I think only those truly dedicated to the advancement of the breed, with the animals health and welfare utmost in their mind, should be able to breed and profit from it. I think that they should need to take a test and become certified/licensed and then have periodic checks from the state to ensure health and safety standards are mainatined. Those that do not have the certification/license would not be able to sell their animals for profit (I understand that if a person's pet had puppies that you ned to sell them for something to pay for vet care and to ensure the person accepting the pup is ready for the respinsiblity the puppy will bring.)

This certification/license would be good foor everyone: the breeders (they would no longer have to defend themselves to others) the pet owners (they can rest in confidence that their pet was bred in a healthful environment) and the state (they would receive the fees generated from the license, fines from health violations... etc.)

Did I make sense? Thats just something I've been thinking about for a while. Hopefully, this would put BYB out of business. If they continued to breed and got caught charging more than what htey needed to cover their costs, and/or the animals were in miserable conditions, they would be able to pay outrageous fine and do jail time.

[stacwase]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I'm not 100% against, although I would love to see people stop breeding until there is no need for animal shelters.

Ditto.

[cocker_luva]

im for breeders.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I'm not 100% against, although I would love to see people stop breeding until there is no need for animal shelters.

I agree with this.

Ash

[primabella]

I think a good idea would be to have a decreased amount of responsible breeders until shelters empty out. I mean, around here ther are about 5 poodle breeders. I really don't think you need that many to keep the breed going.

[Snuggles]

I just asked mainly because whenever I put a post of my "rabbits for sale" everyone has to jump on it. I am not a backyard breeder, I breed for the betterment of the breed & I show in open & 4-H. There are no animal shelters that have rabbits in them as far as I've found out, & in the state of oregon, they dont enthunzize(sp?) so i am against breeders who just breed to make money, but I raise rabbits for a specific purpose. & i make sure that everyone of those that leves my barn has a good home. Beucase if i was to raise rabbits just to raise money, thats just plain stupid, I raise them to acheive my goal of winning. Most of the time i wont breed the doe unless I feel i cant sell them, have a use for them, or if i dont get reserves.
http://hometown.aol.com/ilm1989/images/im000839.jpg

[jenluckenbach]

When I was young I too raised rabbits for breeding and showing. We did what we could to better the breed and I learned a lot about genetics in the process. BUT, I would not go back to doing it today now that I have learned about the severe over population of animals and the extreme numbers that are put to death each year. (and yes pet rabbits are among the statistics). I still do not condemn your actions (so please do not be offended) but think about this (I will use dogs as an example....)

50 states in the union..............
uncountable cities in each state.....................
if as few as 20 (an extremely low number) breeders exist in each state, that is 1,000 breeders.
If each breeder produced 2 litters a year (an extremely low number of litters) that would be 2,000 littes of puppies a year......
If in each litter there are 5 puppies (many breeds would have more) that is a total of at least 10,000 dogs born in one year that need to find placement.
Add to that the dogs bred in Canada, Europe, South America, Mexico, Australia...................and you easliy have 1,000,000 dogs born in a year.
And then there is NEXT year....................

Then add to that all the people who simply do not neuter their pets and have an accidental litter or 2 or 3.................
And add to that those who think they can make money breeding their pets (BYB) and have a litter or 2 or 3...................

When will it stop? Each breeder thinks that what they are doing is VITAL to the survival of the breed. But 50,000 poodle breeders alone are not necessary for the breed's survival!!!

[Kfamr]

I just did a search on Petfinder and there are 75+ bunnies near you in shelters and rescues. 2877 on petfinder all together.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Snuggles
There are no animal shelters that have rabbits in them as far as I've found out, & in the state of oregon, they dont enthunzize(sp?)

I am in Oregon and we DO euthanize animals, including rabbits regularly. Our local Humane Society, Greenhill, has several rabbits there often, and while they do not always euthanize if they have crowded conditions they will. They try not to though.

While there are many many homeless pets, and it saddens me I do not think us breeders who are trying to make the animals betters should have to stop just because careless idiots out there. Rats REALLY need work, and a LOT! There are tons and tons of rats who die so early, have major agression issues etc. We NEED more responsible breeders for rats, we really really do. I cannot stand to see rat breeders breeding does at 6 weeks old, and having litter after litter after litter, none of the babies being social and then the mom dies at 8 months due to a mammary tumor and developed severe agression during pregnancy and nursing etc. While we do strive for the perfect show rats, temperament and healthy ALWAYS come first. There are many rat breeders out there who just do not give a damn one way or the other, but I will not stop breeding because people need healthy well adjusted animals, not pets who bite every time you go near them and are in and out of different sicknesses. No pet owner deserves a pet like that and it's our goal to make their pet owning experience as positive as possible. The focus should be on those who exploit the animals, not those who really care to improve the overall animal.

[Snuggles]

& I guess this is where peoples opinons differ.

[dukedogsmom]

May be some opinions but some facts were also just stated. I think it's wrong to breed just to win prizes and such. To me, it sounds like that's why you mainly do it. I don't agree with that at all and that is my opinion.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
Each breeder thinks that what they are doing is VITAL to the survival of the breed.

What I don't understand is Shleter dog's, rats, cats, bunnies hamsters etc. are JUST as good as the ones bred by breeders. WHY do they need to better the breed? Why do we absolutly NEED specific breeds of everything?? Why can't we just have mutts?? It is proven that a mutt bred to a mutt (Not saying you should!!!) is more healthy then a pur-bred bred to a pur-bred (My vet, who breeds Labs BTW, showed me a whole book about it).

I just don't understand WHY we need breeds. Yes they are pretty but you can find that breed in a shelter, or a dog just as pretty. Yes, some people want certain temperments but you can find that certain temperment in the shelter. Yes, some people want certain size of dog, but you can find that size in the shelter. I dunno...I probly never will understand and IF the world ever comes to a place where we acctually are having a problem with not enough dog's. Then why can't we either start new breeds, breed Healthy mutts or make up some kind of a system so we don't become what we were. But, it is very doubtful we will ever come to that place in life.

Snuggles - I don't hate breeders and I'm not really against them, but I think breeders should give back to the shelters. I also think Breeders should (not saying you don't) look around and notice how many animals ARE in shelters, or ARE in life or death situations. There just are not enough shelters! I think if they did, or even spent some time at shelters maybe they would relize how much the rabbit, dog, cats, rat, hamster etc. world NEED more shelters and less animals. (Again, not saying you don't!)


Ash

[Twisterdog]

People can and do argue back and forth time and again about this. Every breeder thinks they are doing it right, and every rescue or shelter person is sick and tired of death.

Opinions aside, however, the hard facts are seen every day in every city .... dogs die, cats die, rabbits die, rats die. In vast numbers, each and every day of the year.

Why? Two reasons ... too many animals and not enough homes, and a careless attitude about pets. This careless attitude ... "Oh, I don't like this one, I'll take it to the shelter and get a different one" ... is brought about because animals are free, cheap, easily available and not at all valued by this society. Supply exceeds demand by a LONG shot, and the value of any commodity where supply exceeds demands drops. Basic Economics 101.

If demand exceeds supply price and value rise. That is the ONLY thing that is going to help animals. All the preaching and whining and crying and protesting in the world will only make a small dent ... supply must fall below or equal to demand for it to change. History has shown this to be true time and again ever since the caveman first learnd to count on his fingers ... and it will be forever true in our society. Less animals bred means a higher value on them. Simple, and true.

The facts are numbers ... math and economics. Emotion and argument aside, let the numbers speak for themselves. Millions of animals die each year because they are cheap and overly available, too many animals - not enough homes. Period.

[Uabassoon]

I agree with Luckies on her explanation of breeding rats. Yes I do realize that there is a problem with rats not having homes, so far I have yet to find one in a shelter in Tucson (and trust me I look often) but I have seen a few in the Phoenix area. However it's not like going to the shelter where you can adopt a healthy dog or cat. Most of the rats that end up at a shelter came from pet stores and not a good breeder. These rats almost always have myco (if you search on google you will see that a large amount of rats have myco) or will develop tumors at a very young age. Good rat breeders work hard on the health of these animals so that there will be lines of rats that don't have myco and aren't prone to tumors. I think people who have never owned rats don't really realize just how common it is for these little guys to get sick. It seems like rats rarely die of old age, myco or tumors usually get to them first.

Overall I do agree with good and responsible breeders, how ever I know that the majority of breeders out there aren't very good.

[wolfie]

I agree with Aspen and Misty. I love all dogs, but I don't really see a need to keep breeding all these different breeds of purebreds. Breeders are all into keeping a breed 'alive' while millions of dogs DIE in shelters!

and it bugs me that breeders seem to deny that they are adding to the dog overpopulation. They blame BYBs, puppy mills, ect, when really they are adding more dogs to the population too.

Someone has actually said to me on another board, something along the lines of "I am not adding to the dog overpopulation because people who buy my purebred dogs don't want a dirty mutt from the pound"