Freedom of Speech

**catnapper** · 04-22-2004, 03:08 PM

Boy, I always seem to miss the good stuff

I read the thread when it started and could tell that it was going to be a really hot thread once I saw a few of the responses- I stayed away from it after that because, believe it or not, I have no real opinion on the subject myself. I am an opnionated person and had no opinion!!!!

**aly** · 04-22-2004, 04:16 PM

I was disappointed to see the thread gone because I wanted to read the rest of the replies after the last one I made last night.

I hope I wasn't rude in my reply. I don't think I was. I just stated my opinion... I hope!

**Logan** · 04-22-2004, 05:03 PM

Aly, you weren't rude. No one was rude, thank goodness. Obviously, the one who started the thread (and I don't remember who started it, but Wolfchan, I think), owes us an explanation as to why it was deleted, since the moderators didn't delete it.

Logan

**Nomilynn** · 04-22-2004, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Logan
I still commend him for putting his money into efforts that he feels are worthwhile. I would still stand by him, even if my opinons are different from his (which they are not, and why I posted what I did earlier, before the thread was deleted).

I didn't reply to the other thread, but I had planned to. I don't know if I totally agree with what you say here, Logan. Would you really support someone who did something that you felt was completely morally wrong, just because you feel he has a "right" to do what he feels is right? I'm not trying to attack you here, I'm just curious what your response might be

Also, if a person chooses to delete a thread, I don't really think they "owe" anyone an explanation. It's that person's perogative to delete or keep a thread, and to say that people are "owed" an explanation is a bit harsh.. I've deleted threads before and never felt that I should have to "answer" to my actions.

Just my two cents

**Twisterdog** · 04-22-2004, 07:21 PM

Dang. My ISP server was down last night, so I couldn't get online. I miss one night ... and something exciting happens.

And ... hee, hee, hee ... a thread that degraded to a fight - and I wasn't to blame!

Hey, someone post the topic again!

**Logan** · 04-22-2004, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Nomilynn
I didn't reply to the other thread, but I had planned to. I don't know if I totally agree with what you say here, Logan. Would you really support someone who did something that you felt was completely morally wrong, just because you feel he has a "right" to do what he feels is right? I'm not trying to attack you here, I'm just curious what your response might be

Also, if a person chooses to delete a thread, I don't really think they "owe" anyone an explanation. It's that person's perogative to delete or keep a thread, and to say that people are "owed" an explanation is a bit harsh.. I've deleted threads before and never felt that I should have to "answer" to my actions.

Just my two cents

I'll be glad to answer your question, Naomi. There are many times when I don't agree with things that people do and say, either here at Pet Talk or in life. It is not so much supportof the person, but support of the right to their own opinion, as long as it is legal and in good taste. In the case of the man who was the "topic" of the discussion that was deleted, I happen to agree with his stance, but that has nothing to do with my opinion about free speech. Even if my opinion differs from that of another, I try to be respectful of it. Isn't that "freedom of speech", in the true sense of the word? My best friend in this world is a die hard Democrat. I am a die hard Republican. That doesn't make me love her any less. It just gives me another angle to look at things, from the eyes of someone I have the utmost respect for.

As for the deletion, I guess it is that person's perogative to explain or not explain, but I think in a situation like this, where so many people put their heart and soul into responding, it is an act of cowardice to delete the thread with no explanation at all. It is obvious that Karen has already stated that she and Paul didn't delete it, so the originator must have. Yes, I would like to have an explanation. I'm sure that the person who started the thread had a good reason for deleting it. I just know that many of us would like to understand her reasoning for doing so.

By the way, Twisterdog, there was no fight (at least not that I saw). It was a perfectly good thread of people expressing their opinions respectfully.

**Nomilynn** · 04-22-2004, 10:11 PM

Thanks for replying Logan

I think what I meant, even though I did a horrible job of wording it, was if for example someone who ran a business used his/her money for something you totally disagreed with, would you continue to use/spend money/etc that particular business? If I were in that situation, while I wouldn't necessarily say that the business owner should have to stop using his/her money in that way, I would certainly want to be aware so that I would not continue to support the cause that I didn't agree with. To me it's very much the same thing as say, not buying a puppy from a pet store, but rather going to a shelter. Does that make sense?

**CathyBogart** · 04-22-2004, 11:25 PM

It didn't degrade into a fight....It turned from letting people know that they would be supporting certain organizations if they went there into an abortion debate. I don't CARE if he wants to put his money into something important to him, good for him!!

If I was making that much money, you can bet that a lot of it would go to BAARS. (The Bay Area Amphibian and Reptile Society). BUT I would make that widely known so that (among other reasons) if one of the many people who disagrees with the keeping of reptiles as pets didn't want to support BAARS they wouldn't have to.

I don't want him to stop donating to charities that are important to him, I just don't want people who feel the same way I do to donate to them inadvertantly.

Some people were rude, and criticizing ME for things that the person who originally wrote it said, and I felt I could no longer be civil. Also, several members were making (what I felt were) broad generalizing topics that felt rather degrading. So I deleted the whole thing rather than make it any worse or more off topic than it already was.

It's hurtful that I have opened up to people here and told them why this topic is so important to me (Which is something almost NOBODY knows in real life) and yet cutting generalizations were made that FELT LIKE they were aimed at me because the person didn't like the original post. Maybe I overreacted, but I don't think so.

I ALMOST didn't post this, because I don't feel that I OWE an explanation to anyone. BUT....Anything for you, Dukedogsmom!

**ILoveReptiles** · 04-23-2004, 06:33 AM

I can TOTALLY understand that, WolfChan. You're right that the thread did dissolve into something totally unrelated.

I stand behind your decision to delete it 100%

**Logan** · 04-23-2004, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Nomilynn
Thanks for replying Logan I think what I meant, even though I did a horrible job of wording it, was if for example someone who ran a business used his/her money for something you totally disagreed with, would you continue to use/spend money/etc that particular business? If I were in that situation, while I wouldn't necessarily say that the business owner should have to stop using his/her money in that way, I would certainly want to be aware so that I would not continue to support the cause that I didn't agree with. To me it's very much the same thing as say, not buying a puppy from a pet store, but rather going to a shelter. Does that make sense?

I completely understand your question, Naomi, and I agree with you 100%. Somehow, I didn't understand it the first time around! LOL!!!

That thread did get off topic, a bit, and my original response probably added to that (I'm sorry, Wolfchan, I had the best of intentions), but I was directing my response at one particular sentence that someone had written after Wolfchan's original post. It said something to the effect that women should have "choices" and "freedom", and I was giving my opinion that they do have many choices and freedom. I won't restate it again, for fear of upsetting the apple cart!

If I offended anyone, I apologize. I was using that thread to state my opinion, as I thought the Dog House was for that very purpose!

Best intentions.
Logan

**Cataholic** · 04-23-2004, 08:28 AM

WC- Although I missed what I considered the 'good stuff'...I did read alot of the before stuff. I really, really didn't see people directing anything towards YOU. I am not saying you don't have the right to delete a thread..but, that if you did it cause you felt people were attacking you, well, I just didn't see it.

Anytime someone posts an opinion different than yours, or mine, or whomevers, it could seem like they are attacking you, or me, or whomever. But, really, that is only because we feel we 'own' an opinion, and that it is an attack. Opinions are just opinions. I don't think they necessarily comport to a part of that person's character. For instance, many people on here let it be known that they don't approve/like attorneys and some of the litigation that makes it into the news. I don't think they are attacking me, personally (except when PT tried to exclude me from PTville