Breed Standards

[KYS]

I agree Twister.
IMHO: I also do not think you can blame AKC.
Their is a written standard to follow, and some breeders
interpet the standard to suit what they like.
And some judges put up a dog that maybe
they should not have. The breed standard
needs to be written in such a way, where
their can not be any questions on how the standard is interpeted.
It needs to be cut and dry. The official breed clubs have
a lot to do with by-laws etc and changes in the standard.

Not to get off subject, I will say, that I am not a big fan of AKC.
Only because I think they need to be more than just
a registrating body, and be more of a policing.
IMHO, they need to have stricter rules on what dogs
can be registered and breed etc. So maybe
we can have some healthier dogs out their,
and those AKC papers might mean something.
JMHO

[cali]

ok first the border collie was recignized in 1995

here is a quote

AKC, which of course had no previous familiarity with Border Collies except for issuing them ILP numbers, itself adopted a breed standard that defines what a Border Collie should be and how it should look. AKC did not designate a parent club for the Border Collie until August 1996

taken from:http://bordercollie.org/akc.html

[Twisterdog]

Thank you for that information, cali. I was unaware of much of that. I'll read it in more depth later. Interesting, to say the least.

However, I'm still curious about my original question:

Also, what exactly about the AKC breed standard concerning border collies don't you like? No where in the breed standard does it say, "This dog is no longer allowed to herd sheep." Many, many conformation champions also have herding titles. I've heard a lot of BC people complain about the show dogs having "all that hair"; however, the breed standard allows for shorter coats as well as the long, rough coat.

[cali]

because
A-it allows only prick and tipped ears the best herding BCs have rose ears not tipped.
B-there body is supposed to be quite bulky, and "muscular" now they are muscular but th eonly BCs winning in teh showring are total bulk.
C-medium to long hair, they are only supposed to have short to medium. the long har was added cuz well they do that to nearly every breed.
D-muzzle the muzzles are getting shorter and shorter, they never had short muzzles, they have medium lengh muzzles, with plenty of room because they need to breath very well.
E-another thing with the coat, from what I have read border collies "need" a bath at least every 2 weeks, and have hard to manage hair, something I have noticed with show BCs and what people who breed these dogs have said. a true border collie coat is again short to medium length and should almost never need groomed. dirt just falls off, and the coat does not tangle. Remember they are working dogs and never came in the house or anything of the sort they stayed tied up or in a pen when not working. they were not bathed or brushed regularly.

also when bred to a standerd they are bred for looks, these people may very well work there dogs but they are still bred for looks, something that should never happen with the breed, on a board I visit we are all against akc recignition, now the diverse nature of the true working border collie is very noticable, basicly if it has instinct, a good coat for weather purposes, a good eye,can work and are healthy its a border collie. you get good working dogs from breeding to dogs that are healthy and are outstanding herders, with NO basis on looks whatsoever. if it can work and work well, its a good dog. looks should have no factor in the breed at all, and AKC is getting people to breed the BC for looks.

[Twisterdog]

Well, that will indeed be a sad thing for the breed if the conformation champions are bred only for appearance, with no regard to original purpose and skills.

Perhaps that will happen to the border collie, and if it does, it will be a sad case of mismanagement by all parties involved. However, I really haven't seen that happening to too many breeds. It is the exception, not the rule. Almost all of the winning conformation dogs at Westminster, for example, also have titles in herding, field trials, earth dog, etc. They have certainly NOT lost their skill at their original function.

The AKC is not perfect, and I agree with KYS - it would be nice if they could do more to police and research the dogs submitted for registration. However, think about what an impossibly daunting task it would be. How could they ever verify every litter of puppies? Not possible.

If people simply want an excellent working dog, with no regard to looks or breed - fine. Get one. No one is forcing someone who wants a good herding dog to get a purebred border collie from show lines. Get the dog that works for your purposes, and give it good home. For some people, though, a confirmation champion suits their purposes. Good for them. Just because a dog is an excellent example of its breed standard, does not make it helpless or stupid. That's like saying all beautiful women are airheads. Not true.

[KYS]

posted by Twisterdog: However, think about what an impossibly daunting task it would be. How could they ever verify every litter of puppies? Not possible.>>>
Just because a dog is an excellent example of its breed standard, does not make it helpless or stupid. That's like saying all beautiful women are airheads. >>>



I know, I have heard that before.
I still think that proof of OFA, CERFS or what
every test should be required for a specific breed,
should be sent into AKC on both breeding stock
in order for their litter to be registered.
(Just a start)
Hopefully, as DNA gets more widley used in the future,
AKC can also take advantage. Just think of the possiblities for a better future for all breeds.

Talk about beautiful air heads, I just watched Legally blond two.
Talk about a corney movie. lol
Now back to serious.
I love when I see champions with working titles
next to their reg. names. It's nice when Titles and conformation go hand in hand and the owner takes that
extra step/time to take that beautiful dog and work it like it was breed to.

.

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by KYS
I still think that proof of OFA, CERFS or what
every test should be required for a specific breed,
should be sent into AKC on both breeding stock
in order for their litter to be registered.
(Just a start)
Hopefully, as DNA gets more widley used in the future,

Good point. I agree.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by KYS

I love when I see champions with working titles
next to their reg. names. It's nice when Titles and conformation go hand in hand and the owner takes that
extra step/time to take that beautiful dog and work it like it was breed to.

.

I so agree. It is my dream to one day have a dog with titles on both ends. Hopefully I can start with my future whippet!

[Rooroo]

Twister dog, good to know I'll have to look into what to do about that,

my Blu is akc registered it's just that she can't be shown for confirmation. She can compete in anything else, and I may someday do agility with her, because she loves to work, and I think it would help my cause to get some good looking, hard working Blue dogs out there