Pinch Collars?

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by binka_nugget
We're going to another class on the 18th with someone who runs a gsd rescue here so HOPEFULLY, she'll be able to give me some pointers.

Awesome! I love obedience. It's a hobby of mine.
Do you think you'd ever like to compete in obedience?
It's a lot of fun.

[binka_nugget]

Oh I'd love to! I don't know if Kai will be a great obedience dog though. He still has alot of "spunk" if you know what I mean lol. Kaedyn may be great at it though. His past owners didn't teach him much so we're starting from scratch. Actually, the only reason why we're going into basic obedience again is because we want to "refine" some of Kai's skills before heading into agility classes lol. I can't wait!

[Shelteez2]

You should try it. It's tons of fun! Spunky dogs are often the best and most exciting to work with *S*
Agility is loads of fun too. I need to get back into it.

[aly]

Before I post my opinion, I'd like to say that I haven't read any responses to this thread. The reason is I don't want anybody to think my response is a personal attack on them if they use these types of aversive training methods.

In the training classes I teach and all of the training classes I assist in, along with all of the techniques we use at the shelter, we firmly believe in positive reinforcement training. Instead of jerking the dog around, we use luring, shaping, and operant conditioning of behaviors. We successfully leash train exuberant dogs using absolutely no negative corrections. It does take slightly longer and may involve a little more effort on your part, but it is totally worth the time and commitment.

Choke chains and prong collars are commonly used incorrectly and can cause major harm to the dog. Also, using such rough training methods can cause some dogs to become aggressive. Also, if used on a fearful dog, it can cause the dog to become even more fearful.

Training should be a positive experience for you and your dog. It is also a bonding experience. I just don't know how you can bond with your dog while yanking its neck around on some mideval looking torture device.

I am a big fan of the Gentle Leader, the Sporn no pull harness, and the SENSE-ation harness. These harnesses - especially the Gentle Leader - do take some getting used to. You can't slap one on a dog and expect to take it for a walk the first time its on. But if fitted correctly and introduced correctly, it is HIGHLY successful.

So in summary, I am 100% against prong collars. I think there is always another, more humane, option to train.

[clara4457]

Have to agree with Aly on this one. My first concern is always that people will use prong collars incorrectly. I also believe that even though prong collars can be effective to some degree - current studies have proven that positive reinforcement has longer lasting effects than negative reinforcement (which a prong collar is). Gentle Leaders on the other hand are more about getting your dog to focus on you rather than what is two blocks ahead.

I also believe that any collar should be used as a tool only to aid training the desired behaviour. I used the Gentle Leader on Leo to help train walking nicely on a leash - I still used commands and treats and a clicker to reinforce the desired behaviour.

If you do use a prong collar (your choice obviously), it should be fitted and demonstrated by a professional trainer. JMHO

[cloverfdx]

not having any personal experience with a pinch/prong collar i cannot comment on them (although i think they look awful JMHO),

but i have to agree with Aly and Clara on this one there are alot safer dog training methods to use these days without having to "choke" and "correct" a dog. when i started obedience classes with Clover we were always told to give sharp corrections often consequently i know have a terrible lagger when heeling and are struggling through novice obedience trials (im going to give it up as soon as we get that first title), i have now resorted to clicker traing with our dogs and will always clicker train from now on.

oh i also used to use a halti on clover and that worked wonders, we dont have to use it anymore (unless she see's a cat)

OT- i saw a lady walking her lil JRT oneday and she had a correction collar on as a choker, when i mentioned to her how to correctly fit the chain she snapped and said the dog was fine and if she had it on any other way the dog would escape and the chain was about twice as long as it should be

[thunderdog]

walking my thunder was practically impossible without the pinch collar. It's never hurt him the slightest bit, but as soon as it slips over his head he goes into "good dog" mode.

[ramanth]

I don't think a prong collar is good for every breed. I'd never want to see a prong collar on a yorkie.

Our neighbors had a malamute that was unmanagable without the prongs.

Like Cincy's mom and Mugsy... if it's used as a training too and used correctly, I think it can help when all other methods are exhausted.

[mpoier]

Thanks to everyone for your informative information, opinions and tips for training!

Ceebers has been through 3 training classes (lure and reward based training) by an excellent professional. He was the one that suggested the prong collar, and is willing to help me with it.

I have to say that when I purchased it last night, I was very nervous and felt guilty???? Not sure why......I guess they look worse than they are....

When we have put the Halti on Ceebers, some people (obviously non dog owners) thought it was something to completely restrain the dog and thought they looked cruel! I guess everyone has their own opinion, and I totally respect that.

We'll see how this goes, I will know instantly if its going to work or not and I am in no way going to hinder my relationship with my boy, that's for sure!

Thanks again guys!
M

[clara4457]

As a side note - I would like to say I thoroughly enjoyed this thread. Even though prong collars are a controversial topic in some circles, this thread contained different opinions and the reasons for those opinions without resorting to any name-calling, hurt feelings or misunderstandings.

And even though I don't like using prong collars, I respect their choice whether or not to use one.

[mpoier]

You know what, I loved this thread too, very non threatening and just goes to show that us Pettalkers are out here to help each other out!

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by mpoier
I have to say that when I purchased it last night, I was very nervous and felt guilty???? Not sure why......I guess they look worse than they are....

I felt the same way (guilty/unsure), and we started using the collar much the same way...in Cincy's third class under the training/advice of a well respected trainer. they even allowed us to take one home and try it before we purchased one.

Good luck!

[mpoier]

Hey everyone! Well, CB passed his last obedience training class! Yipppeee, now he is going to train to be a Canine Good Citizen!


Anyway, my trainer told me that CB is not a good candidate for a prong collar. He noticed in class last night that there was a high chance that he could become aggressive on the leash.

Sooo, I'm back to Petco again, this time I guess I'll buy a harness!

[ramanth]

Silly Ceebers. Those dogs sometime...

Best of luck with the harness!