New pup *hates* crate - doesn't listen

[trisha0503]

Hi,

First of all, welcome to Pet Talk! I feel so bad for you I am not very much of help, but I wish you well... Hope things get better with your puppy... Feel free to vent that's ok and we're here to listen.. I feel bad for not being able to give you advice... I just had my puppy for a year, so I'm still inexperienced...

Keep us posted... I wish you good luck... We're happy to have you here !

[BerberCarpet]

Pics.



I guess.. i'm going to attatch a file, anyway.

I guess that'll do it?

This pic is from the night after I got her--she was 7 weeks and 1 day old.

Looking at those pictures now, it would seem that she has really grown!


I bet she's gained 8 pounds since this pic.

[Dixieland Dancer]

If she senses you are afraid of her then she will try to be the Alpha over you. You need to let her know that that is unacceptable behavior. I do the ouch thing if she is nipping in play. I will actually put the dog in a time out if it is done in a manner that is not nipping in play (which I think you described).

Take the dog and leash her to a door knob or somewhere where you can tie her up. Not the crate since you are crate training. When she settles down then you can go back to her. I would also really start to hand feed and do basic commands before she gets anything. Even her tennis balls and toys! You can even get her to sit before she goes out for a walk. NOTHING in this pups life should be free! She needs to learn that YOU control the situations!

At this age the worse thing you can do is to let her sense you are afraid. Get her into a puppy kindergarten class immediately. The instructors of most classes are very knowledgeable and may be able to offer additional advice. Make sure it is a positive based class and not one that uses pops and chokes. Pops and chokes on a dog who shows aggressive tendencies can back fire on you especially if they are not done correctly.

[KYS]

Please take Dixieland Dancer's advise.
I used the methods below with
my Rocky, because as a puppy he had a attitute problem.
(he never growled or bit me)
Also, Rocky did not trust humans as a puppy, it
took time and love for me to earn his trust.
Puppy kindergarten sounds like a great idea,
and than continue with formal positive obedience training
when she is old enough.

>>>>>>>

Dixieland Dancer:
I would also really start to hand feed and do basic commands before she gets anything. Even her tennis balls and toys! You can even get her to sit before she goes out for a walk. NOTHING in this pups life should be free! She needs to learn that YOU control the situations!

[Karen]

Don't give up, she's not "mean," but she is very smart and strong-willed. Just keep remembering YOU are in charge, and I agree - Puppy Kindergarten ASAP! It would be fun for both of you.

By the way, she is adorable!!!!!!!! If you can make it through these nest few months, you're gonna have a best friend for years and years and years!

[BerberCarpet]

Another pic


The green is her tatoo... everyone always asks.


Most of it will wear off.

:)

[Dixieland Dancer]

She is beautiful! Please keep us posted on her progress. And I agree with Karen.... after yo get this issue resolved you will have the best friend for life!

[Aspen and Misty]

Sounds like you have a normal puppy

My Chewy ( 6 month old Aussie mix) was so aggresive till abotu a month ago! He would attacke our Sheltie Teddy for no reson. For awile there I had deced I would never get another puppy EVER! Not if they are going to be like Chewy! Geesh he bite me, he ignored me, he hated me unless I had food, he hated his crate, he never listned, he was just an all around little devil. But you know what made it worth while in the end? The whining from the other side of the door when I was in a room and he wasn't, the look of sadness when I locked him in his crate, his happy puppy bark when I came home, him following me, always haveing to sleep by me on the bed at nigth, his love for me is what I beleave got us through. Your pup, I promise will grow out of her bad habits that you hate with a little bit of help. Chewy rarly nips any more, He has stoped destroying chairs and coffie tabls and has turned into the perfect dog I have always wanted. A little loud sometimes. But he is a cutie! Just rember she will mellow down and things will get alot better.

Ashley

[BerberCarpet]

Update:

I have started hand-feeding Jaetta.

This appears to be helping already. She's nipping less hard when she does nip, and she's doing it less often (this is after only 3 hand-fed meals!).

I am putting her in a time-out, tied to the door knob from the kitchen to the pantry when she nips or tries to steal food from my "bisquette buddy" treat bag.

I got treats and a clicker, and have started clicker training.

She can sit now!

Woo hoo!


I signed her up for her first vet visit, and after she gets her shots, she starts puppy kidnergarten Oct 6.


(she's in time out right now, heh. whine whine whine)



I'm feeling much better now.

I had convinced myself that she was "bad" and that I wasn't ready for this, and was ready to take her back the breeder (not that they'd allow that), but now I think i can do this.

I really appreciate you all taking the time to encourage me.

I'm sure it won't be the last time I get frustrated with her, but at least now I know what she's doing is normal.


:)

Thanks!

[KYS]

OH NO! She was not BAD! she was just testing the
waters to see what she could get away with.
That's what strong minded pups do.
So glad you are feeling much better and I
can't wait to hear her puppy kindergarten
stories in Oct. : )

[AmberLee]

Wow, I just saw her photo. She is adorable! So glad things are starting to come around. Do keep us posted on her progress.

[carrie]

Firstly, welcome to Pet Talk.
Secondly - never feel silly for asking questions or for suggestions - it is the sign of an alert mind and a caring nature.
Thirdly - I haven't read what others have written yet so please forgive me everyone if I repeat or go against what you said = this is just my opinion and it is better done fresh.

OK....Here we go.....

The first thing I would advise you to do is to forget about the crate at home - by all means use it in the car and , if you have to, at work. You will probably find that a blanket or bed will work better for everyone.

You say that your pup has Shutzhund winners in her blood - that almost certainly means she has European blood in her and it makes her an easier dog, if anything - once you understand how she is behaving towards you.

You say that she spends a lot of time ignoring you, especially when you are trying to get her attention - either to reprimand or praise her or get her to comply to a command....- by ignoring you she is trying to force you to pay her more attention - she is telling you that she sees herself as the boss and so does not need to listen to you - you need to establish yourself as the unquestioned boss! Nothing happens until you are happy with the way the pup is behaving. Allow her to figure this out....

This pup is ten weeks and is showing nothing unusual - but if you do not control it now - you are right - you will never be in charge!

The biggest weapon you have is to turn what the pup is doing to you around so that when the pup makes demands you ignore it - no need for force or anger - just ignore when the pup demands.


This dog will be the dog of your life - she has every sign of it - get in there early and control it -

Leave the dog at home until you are in total control

Leave a short leash on the dog when you are at home

Allow five minute breaks for toilet every 2-3 hours - let the puppy out, look at your watch and turn your back until it is time to go inside and then call pup and go inside. If pup refuses to come inside then leave her on her own for five minutes, go in and shut the door, resist the temptation to peek through windows. Go back and call her again - if she still refuses leave her for seven minutes - carry this on until she does come to you then calmly praise her. This is all about acting - you must not raise your voice or appear upset in any way - stay as calm as possible and it will work - you MUST keep it up though.

Never play tugging games with this pup - if you throw a ball or rope for it to chase then you do not pick it up again until the dog has left it - you sooooo don't hang around waiting for it to drop it.....

I have written you a load....here are the best bits to remember


When the pup is on the blanket you have given it then you make it's meal - next to the dog bowl you put a plate for you - put half a biscuit, a grape, anything you like on it! Eat what is on th e plate....finish chewing...put your plate in the sink...then put thedog food down - leave it for fifteen minutes then pick it up, even if the pup hasn't eaten or finished it.

Every time you leave the room and come back into it ignore all advances from the pup - this takes practice but is worth it - ignore for at least ten minutes AFTER the pup has given up demanding attention and left you alone to lie down. This means no talking to her and no looking at her at all. Once she has settled down time the ten minutes and then you can call her to you for a fuss and a cuddle.

Never allow this pup to pull you when she is on a lead - simply stop as soon as she begins to pull and walk backwards three or four steps encouraging her to follow you. She will soon get the message that it takes a lot longer to get there when she pulls!

If the pup nips you then shout "OW!" very loudly and instantly turn your back on pup for fifteen minutes - go on with something else and ignore her totally.

Do not let her have any toys except when you are leaving her at home on her own. Pick these up when she goes to her blanket or bed when you get home.

Lastly - do not let this pup sleep in your bed room.....

Give these things a try for a week and if you can be consistent you will see a difference, I promise!

[Karen]

Glad you are feeling better, as we said - "She's not Bad, she's a Puppy!"

She's so pretty, and if you're seeing a difference already then she is every bit as smart as I figured she would be!

Read Carrie's post - I knew this one would lure Carrie in, too - and keep us updated!

[wolf_Q]

Oh Jaetta is just gorgeous! Thanks for sharing the pics!! Feel free to show us more any time you like!

Nebo scared me a few times with his biting too. When I'd pick him up, or grab is collar, or anything....he'd turn around, growl, and bite me really hard! He did plenting of biting that was not play biting at all. He also went after Reggie and Smokey a few times for no reason too (most of the time it was play, but a couple of times it wasn't). Now, he still bites, but not nearly as much, and it's always when he's playing...not just being vicious. He's much nicer to Reggie and Smokey now too, he normally just rubs up against them (though sometimes he likes to shove them against walls lol). They still hate his guts. He's better at leaving them alone though, but he is still very protective of his food (with dogs, not with humans).

I'm glad you and Jaetta are feeling better now! I was really convinced that Nebo was "bad" too and that I had made a mistake in getting him.........I didn't think his aggressiveness was normal at all. He's just a really strong-willed little guy.

[BerberCarpet]

Originally posted by carrie
The first thing I would advise you to do is to forget about the crate at home...

So I just let her run at home?

I cannot imagine what she'd do to my cats when I wasn't there if she wasn't crated up.

Even if I just go out to get the mail or something, she has time to pee or chase a cat around.

Could you explain more?

Originally posted by carrie
- by all means use it in the car and , if you have to, at work. You will probably find that a blanket or bed will work better for everyone.

On this again... ;)

How to keep her nearby at night?

Do leash her to the bed somehow?

Or am I missing it completely?

Originally posted by carrie
You say that your pup has Shutzhund winners in her blood - that almost certainly means she has European blood in her...

Yes.

Her parents were brought over from Germany just recently.

Daddy: http://www.vdhollenburg.com/pedigree.asp?ID=115
Mommy: http://www.vdhollenburg.com/pedigree.asp?ID=117

Originally posted by carrie
... and it makes her an easier dog, if anything - once you understand how she is behaving towards you.

Yikes!

I can't image her being any harder.

Amazing.

Originally posted by carrie
.- by ignoring you she is trying to force you to pay her more attention - she is telling you that she sees herself as the boss and so does not need to listen to you - you need to establish yourself as the unquestioned boss! Nothing happens until you are happy with the way the pup is behaving. Allow her to figure this out....

This pup is ten weeks and is showing nothing unusual - but if you do not control it now - you are right - you will never be in charge!

The biggest weapon you have is to turn what the pup is doing to you around so that when the pup makes demands you ignore it - no need for force or anger - just ignore when the pup demands.

Okay, this makes sense "on paper", but how to put it into practice?


Say when it's potty time while we're at work.

The place we can walk to to potty is 1 city block up the street from my office.

Not far, but still, it's a walk nonetheless.

And she is very stubborn on the leash--she'll forge ahead or stop and sniff or eat a rock.

And I try to stop and walk the other way, and all that, but she will go back and forth, back and forth, forging both ways--and I don't have time for that: I need to get back to work.

The other alternative, of course, is to leave her at home, but then she's there either 8 hours (not really a choice) or I'm driving 30 minutes there and back just to let her out to pee once during the day and have to rush home (also not good).


So there's that.

What to do?


If I work with every forging ahead on leash we'd never get anywhere--and I will be asked not to bring my pup in anymore.

Is there a secret?

Originally posted by carrie
This dog will be the dog of your life - she has every sign of it - get in there early and control it -

Leave the dog at home until you are in total control

Do you mean don't take her to work?

Like I said, that' be worse, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by carrie
Leave a short leash on the dog when you are at home

This I usually do.

But why?

Originally posted by carrie
Allow five minute breaks for toilet every 2-3 hours - let the puppy out, look at your watch and turn your back until it is time to go inside and then call pup and go inside.


If pup refuses to come inside then leave her on her own for five minutes, go in and shut the door...

I don't have a fence.

Should I get a tie-out for the yard?

If so, how long?

Originally posted by carrie
Never play tugging games with this pup...

Yup, this I already don't do.

Originally posted by carrie
- if you throw a ball or rope for it to chase then you do not pick it up again until the dog has left it - you sooooo don't hang around waiting for it to drop it.....

Well, this isn't really a problem: when I throw a ball, she just looks at me and may--or may not--care.

She'll rarely chase it, and even more rarely pick it up.


This changed overnight from when I picked her out.

The first night and day she would actually fetch.

?

Originally posted by carrie
When the pup is on the blanket you have given it then you make it's meal - next to the dog bowl you put a plate for you - put half a biscuit, a grape, anything you like on it! Eat what is on th e plate....finish chewing...put your plate in the sink...then put thedog food down - leave it for fifteen minutes then pick it up, even if the pup hasn't eaten or finished it.

I don't really understand this.

Could you re-explain what you mean here?

Originally posted by carrie
Every time you leave the room and come back into it ignore all advances from the pup...

Pups are supposed to make advances?

Mine only looks up if I have a treat.

Originally posted by carrie
this takes practice but is worth it - ignore for at least ten minutes AFTER the pup has given up demanding attention and left you alone to lie down...

Yah, again, this just doesn't happen:

She never demands attention--unless you count biting me.

Does that count?

She seems to start to get "bite-ee" on two kinds of occasions:

If she's been espcially stubbourn on her leash, and I have had time to go back and forth trying to get her to not pull--then she'll really bite at my pant legs a lot. (and my hands and arms too, if I reach down there)


And also whenever she's really excited, usually when I stop her from chasing one of the cats.

but sometimes it's just outta nowhere--she'll be biting me.

?


Other than that, she does't really demand my attention.


If we're home in the evening she is either chasing the cat or biting me.

I try to get her to play with her Kong or her bone or rope toy, but mostly she walks around, tries to pull the carpet up with her teeth, chases the cats and bites me if I stop her from doing any of the above.

:(

Originally posted by carrie
This means no talking to her and no looking at her at all. Once she has settled down time the ten minutes and then you can call her to you for a fuss and a cuddle.

Now: sometimes she does settle down, but she *never* wants to cuddle.

She'll whimper and fight if you try and hold her--eyes flailing around and claws everwhere.

She simply will not be calmed.

Odd?

Originally posted by carrie
Never allow this pup to pull you when she is on a lead - simply stop as soon as she begins to pull and walk backwards three or four steps encouraging her to follow you. She will soon get the message that it takes a lot longer to get there when she pulls!

I hope so..

So far she seems pretty content to pull... lay down...pull...lay down...pull...lay down...pull...lay down.

She can go 15 minutes in the same 5 foot place--back and forth, back and forth.

As soon as I change direction, she'll either just plant down and not move for anything, or pull the new direction.

Originally posted by carrie
If the pup nips you then shout "OW!" very loudly and instantly turn your back on pup for fifteen minutes - go on with something else and ignore her totally.

I have tried this--well, I try it every time.

And every time it gets me me nips on the backs of the elbows and loud snarls and then hard bites on the backs of my arms.

Ow for real, no acting required.

She simply will not be ignored--she keeps biting until I get up and put her in a time out.

(she's in time out a lot)

Originally posted by carrie
Do not let her have any toys except when you are leaving her at home on her own. Pick these up when she goes to her blanket or bed when you get home.

She pretty much ignores her toys anyway...

I don't think she's ever gotten one on her own.

Originally posted by carrie
Lastly - do not let this pup sleep in your bed room.....

What?

Now this goes against everything i have ever heard or read.

Why not?

Where to sleep?

And of not in a crate? in what?

Originally posted by carrie
Give these things a try for a week and if you can be consistent you will see a difference, I promise!

I'm interested... for sure.

But I really want to understand some of this.

The "no crate" thing esspecially--how do I keep her out of trouble, if she's not in a crate when I can't be right there?

My cats are already eating half of what they were before we got the puppy.

I cannot imagine what their lives would be like if the pup can just run around at night while I'm asleep.

?