Two stories about medicine that trouble me.

[Cataholic]

Do me a favor?

Just stop reading my posts. Like most opinionated people I don't flip flop when the wind blows. My position is that if you are not prepared to have kids and all the crap that goes along with them, bow out. I bowed.

Customizing a child to a familial situation is tasteless and sad comment about what medicine in our country has come to. Just like in-vitro, let's implant a dozen eggs, waste 6 and pop out a litter with all kinds of problems.
d


I think I am smart enough to know that I couldn't handle having children and
I don't feel good about arguing with the only mother in the United States.

Yeah, I don't think you could have handled having kids. There is just too much of the unknown for your comfort level. These parents **could** have opted out, be it abortion, instutionalizing, or in home around the clock care. But, they didn't.

It is your insensitivity to this situation (and others) that is shocking.

[lizbud]

Liz,

Here's my hypothetical....


If I had married and my wife had a stroke and was veggied out-

I would want a hyst-to keep her from having kids.
Breast implants- Laser bikini waxing - and a feeding tube, I don't want her to gain anymore weight while she lies there.


You see, It's really difficult for me, as her husband to go out and date again-I am married, and it's convienent for me not to enter the singles scene again.


So I want to keep her 'viable' because I married her in sickness and in health.

And nothing over a large "d", ok?

What a perverted thing to say.I told you that you wouldn't understand.
I do think you have a right to an opinion, but still believe you can never
truly understand all that went into the decision by her parents.

[Marigold2]

Hi Richard,
I did read the article. As a mother of three I totally agree with the parents. This child has the mental age of a three month old. The parents are not even sure that she recognizes them. Being a woman I know that sometimes having ones period is very very painful. If this little girl was in pain once a month due to her period her parents wouldn't know. I and many other woman have suffered and had to take days off of work, stay in bed, use pain meds, hot water bottles and sometimes even go on the pill to relieve the pain, cramping. I think if you ask any woman if she wants her period 99% will save NO.
Another issue is the health and welfare of the parents. How will they be able to lift and clean their daughter as she got bigger and they got older. What if one of the parents became ill or died? There are so many things to take into account. Luckly this is a free country and NO ONE has the right to make that decison for them but them. No one else has to have that burden. They are the ones to get up in the middle of the night and do what must be done. I doubt very much if they have had one peaceful nights sleep or one truly happy day since this all happened and they found out the extent of their daughters illness. And yes, no matter how much you love your child it is a burden. No one says "gee when I grow up I hope I have a handycapped child" Thank Goodness your morals cannot be placed upon others. For I would not want anyone to have to live that way, unless it was their choice. We all have to face God, if we believe in him when our time comes. If you die with no regrets that is great. Let others make that choice for themselves without nasty comments or harsh words. If anything these people need support, understanding and some help. You seem very angry, why is that?? Maybe taking care of you dad made you so angry. Maybe you feel life passed you by. Each day is a new gift. Enjoy Richard, be happy be healthly and allow others to do the same. Kindness is a gift that can never be given too often.

[Cataholic]

Marigold 2, what a moving post.

[CathyBogart]

Guys, don't act like someone has to pop out a kid in order to have intelligent opinions about how other people take care of their kids. I may disagree with Richard's opinion in this case, but I hate the argument that anyone who hasn't conformed to society's expectations to reproduce at a certain age can't have opinions on such matters.

[Cataholic]

Guys, don't act like someone has to pop out a kid in order to have intelligent opinions about how other people take care of their kids. I may disagree with Richard's opinion in this case, but I hate the argument that anyone who hasn't conformed to society's expectations to reproduce at a certain age can't have opinions on such matters.

No one is saying anything about conforming to society's expectations to reproduce....it isn't always the topic of conversation.

One can know how hot a fire burns intellectually, but, it is quite a different experience to feel the flame. Like it or not, there is a difference. No one is better or worse, because of a child, but, in this situation, with a child born of such significant limitations, a parent's "hurt" (such a weak word for this situation) is difficult to convey.

That you recognize the parents situation says much about you.

[lizbud]

Hi Richard,
I did read the article. As a mother of three I totally agree with the parents. This child has the mental age of a three month old. The parents are not even sure that she recognizes them. Being a woman I know that sometimes having ones period is very very painful. If this little girl was in pain once a month due to her period her parents wouldn't know. I and many other woman have suffered and had to take days off of work, stay in bed, use pain meds, hot water bottles and sometimes even go on the pill to relieve the pain, cramping. I think if you ask any woman if she wants her period 99% will save NO.
Another issue is the health and welfare of the parents. How will they be able to lift and clean their daughter as she got bigger and they got older. What if one of the parents became ill or died? There are so many things to take into account. Luckly this is a free country and NO ONE has the right to make that decison for them but them. No one else has to have that burden. They are the ones to get up in the middle of the night and do what must be done. I doubt very much if they have had one peaceful nights sleep or one truly happy day since this all happened and they found out the extent of their daughters illness. And yes, no matter how much you love your child it is a burden. No one says "gee when I grow up I hope I have a handycapped child" Thank Goodness your morals cannot be placed upon others. For I would not want anyone to have to live that way, unless it was their choice. We all have to face God, if we believe in him when our time comes. If you die with no regrets that is great. Let others make that choice for themselves without nasty comments or harsh words. If anything these people need support, understanding and some help. You seem very angry, why is that?? Maybe taking care of you dad made you so angry. Maybe you feel life passed you by. Each day is a new gift. Enjoy Richard, be happy be healthly and allow others to do the same. Kindness is a gift that can never be given too often.

This is an excellent post.Says it all & very well too.

[RICHARD]

Yeah, I don't think you could have handled having kids. There is just too much of the unknown for your comfort level. These parents **could** have opted out, be it abortion, instutionalizing, or in home around the clock care. But, they didn't.

It is your insensitivity to this situation (and others) that is shocking.

I asked you politely to stop reading my posts.

I recognized very early that I wasn't the kind of person to father, parent and care for children (Or baby goats for the matter...).

You do not know me so I find your mention of my "comfort level" to very amusing. Are you trying the old "back off with humor: trick?

----------

Have you ever tried to clean the rear end of an 80 year old man?
Or pick him up to get him to the shower?
Have you ever watched anyone waste away froms AIDS?
have you lost your father and six months later lost your fiance?


MG,

I worked in healthcare for 30 years. Altho I didn't have close patient contact I saw more pain just walking the halls of the buildings.

CB,

Thank you for recognizing my right to speak my twisted mind.


Liz,
Perverted...You forgot selfish.

Isn't my proposal tantamount to what those parents are asking for their loved one?

You see that what I wrote is extreme - I think the child's parents requests are in the same vein.

The annoyance that you feel towards my scenario could be the same that I feel towards the topic.

And altho my feelings lean towards the paternal, I never felt the desire to sire offspring and I have no kids (NOT EVEN GONNA USE THAT STUPID JOKE, "That I know of.....") I find that having an opinion disqualified because I never have had fill-in-the-blank to be the highest form of intolerance.

[cassiesmom]

Quoted from Time.com article about this child: "doctors removed her uterus to prevent ... pregnancy in the event of rape".

I don't agree with some of the procedures performed on this child to accommodate her caregiving needs. The procedures have been done, so it's a moot point. We'll see what happens as she gets older as a result of exposure to high estrogen doses. But the above quote makes me the most angry, because there was a young woman in a nursing home here in the Chicago suburbs who became pregnant after she was sexually assaulted by a nursing assistant. She lacked the mental capacity to consent to sex with him, and she lacked the physical ability to resist him. The staff and parents had no idea that she was pregnant until she was sent to the hospital because of problems with her feeding tube. At that point she was 28 weeks pregnant. The child was delivered by C-section and placed with the young woman's parents. The nursing assistant was charged with a sexual assault.

To even insinuate the potential that young Ashley might be raped and consequently become pregnant makes me want to run outside and scream. The parents chose to sterilize her, in part, because they became aware that the potential for this existed. What has this world come to, that health care providers are so untrustworthy that drastic measures such as a hysterectomy on a 9-year-old are required.

[RICHARD]

To even insinuate the potential that young Ashley might be raped and consequently become pregnant makes me want to run outside and scream. The parents chose to sterilize her, in part, because they became aware that the potential for this existed. What has this world come to, that health care providers are so untrustworthy that drastic measures such as a hysterectomy on a 9-year-old are required.

Have you come over to the darkside, where I hang out?

A pretty dark thought, considering the child is cared for at home.

And the reason that I post the link.

[Cataholic]

I asked you politely to stop reading my posts.

I recognized very early that I wasn't the kind of person to father, parent and care for children (Or baby goats for the matter...).

You do not know me so I find your mention of my "comfort level" to very amusing. Are you trying the old "back off with humor: trick?

-

Wait a minute, back up, and stop the presses. We now have to KNOW someone to have an opinion? LOL. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I know you at least as well as you know the parents of this child.

You haven't a clue what these parents are going through. Your posts indicate that clearly. Nothing about this situation is funny. I am not using humor, I was quite serious with what I posted concerning your posts. When I am wrong, I admit it, retract the statement, and let it go. I don't dig in deeper.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Guys, don't act like someone has to pop out a kid in order to have intelligent opinions about how other people take care of their kids. I may disagree with Richard's opinion in this case, but I hate the argument that anyone who hasn't conformed to society's expectations to reproduce at a certain age can't have opinions on such matters.

I have no children and expressed an opinion. Perhaps I cannot know the anguish of these parents, but I imagine and sympathize nonetheless.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Guys, don't act like someone has to pop out a kid in order to have intelligent opinions about how other people take care of their kids. I may disagree with Richard's opinion in this case, but I hate the argument that anyone who hasn't conformed to society's expectations to reproduce at a certain age can't have opinions on such matters.

I have no children and expressed an opinion. Perhaps I cannot know the anguish of these parents, but I imagine and sympathize nonetheless.

I don't think anyone is suggesting you must be a parent to understand...rather I think they are suggesting a mental stroll in the parents' shoes.....

[RICHARD]

I don't think anyone is suggesting you must be a parent to understand...rather I think they are suggesting a mental stroll in the parents' shoes.....

Well that certainly does me no good.

I don't get the pinch of new leather,
The blisters or cramped toes.

I think it's pretty brash to tell me that I cannot make an judgement because I have no children or baby goats.

Smashing you thumb with a hammer is one kind of pain.
Letting a loved one go is another kind of pain.
Customizing your child to escape pain is pretty effing selfish.

I am truly surprised that they didn't ask American Tourister for a
carrying bag for the kid...the kind on wheels so they dodn't hurt their backs.

[Pam]

WOW! I had not heard of this story until now. I am very conflicted about the whole thing and truly can see both sides. Of course being a mother maybe clouds my judgment a little. On the one hand I can see wanting to alleviate any pain for my child (what mother wouldn't), but it is quite another thing to subject a child to major surgery. Just having my daughter *go under* at the oral surgeon's office for wisdom teeth extraction was enough anxiety for me to go through.

My mother has been in a care facility now for about five years. In that time I have seen sights that are heartbreaking. One woman stands out. She is probably in her mid-30's and obviously with some serious neurological problems. She spends her days in a wheelchair amongst a mostly elderly population. I wonder what her parents would think of this story. I cannot even begin to judge the actions of these parents because, thank God, I am not in their situation. Though my mom is in an excellent facility, I have heard the horror stories that we all read about concerning nursing home abuse. I just don't know the answer. It would take the wisdom of Solomon to rule on this and none of us are qualified.