Mink or Pine Marten?

**luckies4me** · 01-11-2003, 01:35 PM

Thanks everyone for your input.

Mugsy:

This animal is not going to be a "pet" which I don't know what else I would call him, but to call a mink a pet is rather dramatic, lol. He will be used in my educational program with local schoolkids. He will be a good animal to teach these young children about fur farms and the attrocities that go on there and how you should never let a wild animal back into the wild etc.

Of course I will love this animal dearly but he will not be here just for something for me to do or as a possesion. He will be an animal ambassador, and hopefully will do his job very well.

ChinaDoll:

I do agree with you on the ferret issue. I do not know how they go about selling their ferrets but I do agree with what you are saying. They should be altered before being sold. Here in our petstores there are unaltered ferrets from Marshall Farms being sold at our pet shops.

**luckies4me** · 01-11-2003, 01:42 PM

ChinaDoll:

Just wanted to let you know that how you are explaining contracts etc. is exactly how I breed my rats. All babies are usually pre-reserved before hand. All come with an adoption contract etc. I have five contracts: breeding, breeding/show, pet, show, and rescue.

My site is not finished yet and I still need to get the agreements up but you can take a look at it here Sign the guestbook and let me know what you think.

I take the fancy VERY seriously. I know the genetics my lines carry and the pedigrees. I breed for temperament and health first, beauty second. My babies are handled since birth. All rats have spacious cages etc. Also, most babies are sold to private breeders. Although I sell to the general public also. I breed for myself basically, for the love I have for these tiny companions. I don't supply pet shops either.

I hope you enjoy the site. I should have a few new pages up later today, including my article on feeding.

**Chinadoll** · 01-11-2003, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by luckies4me
ChinaDoll:

Just wanted to let you know that how you are explaining contracts etc. is exactly how I breed my rats. All babies are usually pre-reserved before hand. All come with an adoption contract etc. I have five contracts: breeding, breeding/show, pet, show, and rescue.

My site is not finished yet and I still need to get the agreements up but you can take a look at it here Sign the guestbook and let me know what you think.

I take the fancy VERY seriously. I know the genetics my lines carry and the pedigrees. I breed for temperament and health first, beauty second. My babies are handled since birth. All rats have spacious cages etc. Also, most babies are sold to private breeders. Although I sell to the general public also. I breed for myself basically, for the love I have for these tiny companions. I don't supply pet shops either.

I hope you enjoy the site. I should have a few new pages up later today, including my article on feeding.

I never doubted your breeding ethics. You can tell how much you love and care for them in the way you talk about them. Your ratties are so cute

**luckies4me** · 01-11-2003, 10:30 PM

Thanks!!! Did you go look at my site, hehe? I am trying to get guestbook entries, lol!

I finally added my form to the adoption page. I still need to get the agreements up though. It takes so long to finish everything lately. I have been super loaded with work!

**Twisterdog** · 01-12-2003, 01:38 AM

There was a lady that moved to my town that had a pet bobcat. (Which is illegal here, BTW.) She would dress it up in a coat or sweater and walk it around town on a leash, with her dog .. also on a leash and in a coat. It made quite a spectacle ... which is exactly what she wanted. The bobcat always looked scared and miserable. It really ticked me off.

I have a real problem with exotics available to the general public. Zoos, conservationists and rescues are quite a different story, of course. But I personally feel it should be illegal for Joe Q. Public to purchase or own a bear, bobcat, wolf, aligator, tiger, ocelot, etc. Seems to me that 90% of people who get an exotic animal do so for the shock value or the "cool" factor ... and when that wears off, out goes the animal.

I've recently taken in a six foot long green iguana, two box turtles, several wild-caught (illegal) song birds, a tartantula, etc. These animals were someone's exotic pets, and they got tired of them, and they ended up at animal control or the humane society ... malnourished, sick and miserable.

I believe that we have enough already-domesticated pets to fill any niche or need. I don't think there is any need to attempt to domesticate more and more species by making them exotic pets.

And, IMO, there's far more than enough ferrets in the world, without someone selling unaltered ones on the internet. Sheesh.

**luckies4me** · 01-12-2003, 02:07 AM

Did you read the whole thread? I own an exotic animal rescue, this is what the animal will be for.

**Twisterdog** · 01-12-2003, 02:20 AM

Yes, I read the whole thread. I saw where you said you owned a rescue. My comments weren't directed at you in particular, I was just stating my general opinions about exotic pets.

However ... no offense intended ... but I'm not sure buying a baby mink to bottle feed via the internet qualifies as rescue.

Just MHO.

**luckies4me** · 01-12-2003, 02:30 AM

No this animal is not a rescue. He will be an animal ambassador and used in educational outings etc.

I like to use animals that are bottle raised or handled from a very young age. Most rescues have been so neglected they are afraid of humans. Not much use for educating the public. However there are many rescues we do use, such as rats, bats and other small animals that tend to tame down pretty easy even after enduring horrific things in their past.

**NoahsMommy** · 01-12-2003, 02:32 AM

I don't understand why you would support this company by purchasing anything from them. Your ultimate goal is to stop exotic animals from being hurt/abandonded/abused, yet you contribute to a company that freely breeds and actively SELLS black bears, squirels, minks, larger cats, etc??? If I had your goal, I'd be doing anything I could to STOP this company.

Maybe I'm missing something....I'm still amazed this isn't illegal!

**luckies4me** · 01-12-2003, 02:41 AM

The reason I am going with this company is because they care a great deal about their animals, and in their contract it states that every animal that leaves their home can always come back. They sell to other breeders, educational facilities, zoos and conservation centers. It is becomming very hard now a days for just anyone to aquire an extic pet. Laws are getting stricter etc. I don't believe breeding animals for conservation or private homes is wrong, and that includes exotics. Their are many people out there who put the effort into caring for their animals and learning and growing with their pet. I will not single out these people from the other careless owners out there.

Many exotic rescues animal ambassadors come from private breeding facilities as this one. Like I said, unless you know how this trade works it can be very confusing. And the animal I am purchasing is considered a domestic fur bearing animal. They are raised for pelts and have been kept as pets for many years. Oregon state does not consider them an exotic, they are bred for fur. They are profit animals as that is how many people view them.

**Desert Arabian** · 01-12-2003, 02:49 AM

Personally, I think it is sick. It breaks my heart to see wild animals like big cats, black bears, alligators, sharks, any wild animal, cooped up in a cage/tank. Black bears belong in the woods climbing trees, alligators belong in the swamp, sharks belong in the ocean, and big cats belong in the woods/plains/rainforest etc. There is a three foot Nurse Shark at our local pet store in a small tank and all it does is lay on the sand and swim in circles, it is the most depressed looking creature I have ever seen in a pet store. Some animals just aren't ment to be domesticated.

That's all I am going to say - - BTW, this is directed to the intire public not just any one person.

**luckies4me** · 01-12-2003, 02:54 AM

YLL: You say these animals ae meant to be climbing trees etc. but is it not you who hunts them? Do you not go out with your father?

I do believe that most of these animals belong in the wild. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it. Look at Texas. They allow all sorts of animals as pets!

**NoahsMommy** · 01-12-2003, 03:09 AM

We are constantly hearing that a shark is being killed for attacking/eating a person. We hear a mountain lion is being tracked for kill after it attacked a person. The same goes for bears and any other animal "brazen" (HA!) enough to hurt/kill/eat a human...animals were put here BEFORE us...WE moved in and built our homes/stores/roads in THIER homes....but let us feel free to kill them for living instinctually while we steal thier homes and quite possibly thier food sources. That alone, should prevent ANYONE from breeding mountain lions.

The very idea of someone breeding these animals is terrible. I'd like to hear the "logic" behind it being "OK" to breed "exotic" animals for the betterment of others...is that what you are saying? Its OK to breed them and sell them to whoever can get a few bucks just as long as the breeders "love" their animals and offer information to zoo's (not all that great of a selling point) and rescues. I''m sorry, but if there weren't people out there selling a black bear for $600.00, there wouldn't be much need to have a rescue group.

If these people really cared for the welfare of these animals, they wouldn't be breeding them. Its as simple as that, I'm not not understanding anything.

I care greatly for all animals. It hurts my heart that so many of them are being exploited this way. It hurts my heart to see dogs, cats, birds, ect. being purchased and either given up or ignored due to humans no longer caring. You know what I do about it?? I volunteer at a no-kill shelter. We socialize cats so they can have a new life, with some one who really loves them. I adopt "regular" cats from the shelter, I don't contribute to the problem. That is what you are doing....you are contributing to this problem....

**luckies4me** · 01-12-2003, 03:16 AM

Not every breeder is bad. Are you then condoning very breeder out there?

I plan to breed Servals one day, because they are an endangered species and through conservation effots these animal can live for many more years. Some of these animals are almost extinct in the wild!

Most of my animals are rescues.

All animals started out somewhere. All pets were once wild and domesticated at some point. Not all should be but well many are. Our cats, dogs etc. Sometimes the only way an animal can live on is through breeding programs.

My toroise for instance is an engangered species. I hope to get a female next summer and start my breeding program. Not ALL breeders do it for money, they do it for the love of the species. And yes, I don't have a problem with responsible breeding.

**Desert Arabian** · 01-12-2003, 03:21 AM

Why yes I do hunt certain animals, along with thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of other people, and I still have respect for animals just like any other non-hunter. (My dad and I once found an injured duck- did we shoot it? No, we took it to the Wisconsin Humane Society, where they treated it and it was later released.) You wouldn't truly know about hunting, since you don't hunt, so you can't judge. No, I have never eaten Mt. Lion, neither has my dad. The animals I hunt to eat do not climb trees, not like that matters. I'll tell you one thing, as a hunter, I know way more about the deer, the wild rabbit, the duck and goose, than any non-hunter would. I love walking into the woods at the crack of dawn and smell the sweet air and listening to the birds wake up and start singing, and once and a while hear the occasional turkey gobble, and as I sit there on the ground I like to watch the squirrels chase eachother in the trees and act like hooligans, and I like to watch the Bald Eagles soar high above the pine trees and listen to the stream next to me trickle on the rocks, and watch the beautiful sun rise up and the fog lift from the swamp. I like to watch the Pilated Woodpeckers (sp) bang away on the maple trees, so loud it could wake up the whole forest. It is so peaceful and relaxing to sit in the middle of the woods, away from the hustle and noise of the inner-city. It's not all about killing animals. I mainly go out to enjoy the sights and sounds, and if I get lucky enough, and I do see my food, I might take it, or I might not. But like I said, you have no clue about any of this, for you have never experinced it, but those who have (most) like it. Have you ever watched a river otter play with duck decoys splashing about and tugging them under water, and see a fox play with its kits, or watch a black bear go running past you completely unaware of you- I doubt you have. Just because I hunt doesn't mean I have a cold cold heart and have no feeling about animals, I have more respect for animals BECAUSE of hunting, it has turned me into a different type of person, in a good way, and I am glad. I'd never give up hunting, never. And I could careless what anyone thinks about it.