motivational training

[Shannon]

Hi Everyone,
I teach a basic obedience course for beginners and intermediate handlers. I have a delema. One of my students has a 10 month old Saint Bernard. This dog has nothing that motivates him. We have tried every kind of food, squeeky toys, tennis balls, verbal and petting praise, owners socks tied in a knot, happy high puppy voice. There are no health or nutritional issues the dog has had a full check up. He is not even really interested in other dogs. He is an intact male who the owner has interest in conformation showing. It doesn't look good for this guy considering his ring presence is that of Eeore from Winnie the Pooh! Please help if you have any ideas.
Thank you,
Shannon

[Karen]

Okay, have you tried ice for a treat? Our St. Bernard would do anything for ice for some reason! She was a sweetheart who was very easy to train, but she LOVED ice, tummy rubs AND corn cobs once we were finished with them! Does anything excite him at all - any favorite toy or person?

[KYS]

It doesn't look good for this guy considering his ring presence is that of Eeore from Winnie the Pooh
>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;

Does she want to compete in obedience or
Conformation or both?

They have handling classes and puppy fun matches etc. for comformation.
A good handler probably has tricks of the trade to bring out the best in a dog.
As for obedience does the dog have a
descent appitite? If yes, what if she
skips his meal before the training class. Maybe than he will be more interested
in treats/praise?
Sounds like you and his owner have your hands full with this guy. Hope you have plenty of patience.

[KYS]

Me again,
I appolize.
I read your first post to quickly and
thought you taught beginning and intermed. obedience. I read your post again and
see you teach handling classes not obedience. So please disregard my last post.

Very sorry!

[carrie]

Hi,
Most of us spend an awful lot of time training our dogs and socialising them in pursuit of a laid back, confident and relaxed dog....need I say more!
No, seriously, I have had a few like this and I know how frustrating it is. Try giving the dog no attention at all except at meal times, walk times and any other occasions when he actually gets up of his own accord, such as when the door bell rings. Work him at these times and reserve all attention to praise of the wildest nature when he responds. For instance, when you pick up the lead ready for a walk ask him to sit, stay and move to the other side of the room before calling him in. Go bananas when he obeys, fuss him give him treats and then take him to a favourite place on his walk. Then ignore him until feeding time when you should ask him to do a little work before he gets his dinner. Persevere with this and never show impatience, if the dog refuses to comply then he doesn't get his walk/dinner and you should ignore him for fifteen minutes before trying again. It will take a few days for the dog to realise the connection, but hopefully he will see that trading what you want for what he wants is worth it.

[Shannon]

Thank you all for such wonderful ideas. I will implement many of them asap with this student.

Thank you,
Shannon

[OldTimer]

KYS is still correct about one thing. We who learned training in the movie business know that hunger is often the key to learning. If your dog doesn't respond to treats, he's not hungry enough. Now don't get me wrong -- I'm not talking about starving your dog, but they can go a lot longer between meals than humans can. Even for a well trained dog, we don't send them out to do a dog food commercial with less than 24 hours hunger. That's not much considering some working dogs are fed only every other day. I bet that sends shivers down a lot of your spines. The other thing to consider is your dog's breed. He's A LOT hotter than we are. Even in 70 degree temperature, he's very hot and his mass stores that heat. Your dog will perform his best when it's colder. Train early in the moring or in the evening or just wait since you're in Vermont if it's not already pretty cool in the daytime by now.

[karen israel]

So THAT's how they get the dogs to eat with such vigor on those commercials!! You're right, don't like the starving bit at all, though it makes some sense. I did snicker to myself, my Cody acts like a poor undernourished, alley dog. Maybe I'll threaten him with a TV commercial!!! Would love to know what "famous" animals you've trained. I love to watch that on TV!

[teena]

Karen,
You have alley dogs too? I free-feed my two and they always act as though I abuse them by withholding people food. Have never fed people food, but they must figure that if we eat it, it must be pretty good. They act like vultures when I am cooking dinner. They know they can't be in the kitchen, but they lay right at the edge, with just their paws in, looking like poor, pathetic "alley dogs".

[RachelJ]

My Tucker inhales his food. I swear he can't be chewing it, it goes down so quickly. He was at one time a stray and I'm wondering if this is from the experiences he had while on his own. He was very skinny when we got him, but has packed on a few pounds and really will be fat if he puts on any more, so he surely is getting enough but his method of consuming food has not changed. When I feed him, I dare not blink or I will miss the act of his eating.

[RachelJ]

Sorry, I didn't mean to change the original topic, it's just that in the course of conversation, I guess other stuff comes up.

[tatsxxx11]

Sorry to keep the topic, "off topic" but I know just what you mean Rachel. My labs have always inhaled their food. I watch in amazement at other dogs that just pick!! Like you said, I KNOW my dogs are not really eating but inhaling! I asked my vet about this and she said that dogs, STILL having the exact same genetic makeup (DNA markers) as their anscetor wolves, may still mimic their eating pattern. Some more than others. Hence the phrase "wolf down" their food!

[carrie]

Too true! One of our Greyhounds had to be fed a handful at a time or actually pulled off his food in between mouthfuls or he would choke. Nothing wrong with him physically, just too much wolfing and not enough swallowing and breathing in the appropriate places!

[ktreva52]

For the wolfers - try tossing a raw potato into the bowl on top of the food. I've had one dog that would eat the potato, too, but most will either try to nose it out of the way or work around it. Now, we're going WAY off the subject -- do the dogs that wolf their food eat their own feces? I'm doing an informal study on the connection.

For the Saint that won't respond to treats -- have you tried cat treats? They're more flavor intensive and smell intensive, so might motivate the guy. My sister shows and breeds Saints in Texas, I could check with her if you like. Email me at [email protected] and I'll get you in touch with her. Another treat my dogs would just about kill for is bananas. Last thought on treats -- I had one student that wouldn't work with treats for the longest time and then I asked his mom what he ate for regular food. Turned out the size of the treat was the problem, since he had never had anything larger than a small-bites kibble. I also had a Lhasa student that wouldn't respond to any of the above and we finally taught her to respond some to a squeaky ball larger than a tennis ball. I suspect this dog has not been taught how to play and has very little clue about squeakys or balls. Maybe the owner needs to teach the dog to play at home and see if that doesn't start to perk him up. Does he respond to light blowing in the face? Watch he doesn't eat your face off, but any response could be strongly praised (he may not accept really boisterous praise at first) and see if they can work from there. Good Luck.