Question about President Bush

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Aaaahh...now I get it.

[lizzielou742]

hee hee hee....

So, therefore, I propose that the pro-lifers just drop the issue, since it's never going to be banned, and that way we can start to focus on the other "real" issues

Agreed!!! Both sides should just leave the issue where it is.

[snappy]

I have just one small thing to say on this - I happen to know personally of a woman who lost her life in a back alley abortion - my boyfriends grandmother back in the 1930's. Her husband was a coal miner and they couldn't afford any more children and she was pregnant for the third time. She went to a doctor and died less than 1 month later. I don't want to go back to those times.

[Logan]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
I'd have to disagree, lizzielou. If the Republicans went ahead and banned abortions, it would become even more of an issue because the pro-choicers would start pushing even harder to get it un-banned. And also, there would start to be all the health problems cropping up from women who go ahead and get them illegally by untrained non-doctor types.

So, therefore, I propose that the pro-lifers just drop the issue, since it's never going to be banned, and that way we can start to focus on the other "real" issues.

And Logan, no problem. If you hang out in these threads in the doghouse you know I normally don't get involved either. Don't know why this one sucked me in.

Thank you for undertstanding, Debbie. I have conflicting views and I think it is best for me to bow out of subjects like this one, and also the gay/gay marriage ones.......My opinions are just that, "my opinions" and they don't add any strength or defense, very good opposition to the arguments, so I choose to love on my pets and just stay out of the fray. Just today, I was saddened by the fact that we lost a long, loyal Pet Talker because of the Dog House. Maybe if she and I had stayed out of the Dog House, she would have remained a Pet Talk member and I would have learned to shut up and talk about animals, not politics!!!

[aly]

Oh NO! Who left??? You don't have to tell if you were asked not to, but I am sad someone left because of the Dog House.

I am one who has always stayed out of the Dog House completely until the last month or two. I will probably bow out of it again myself (just the Dog House, not PT). I have enjoyed a lot of the discussions here, but a few of them made me very stressed and upset! I hold no negative feelings for anyone though, I just think I'll be mentally healthier reading the rest of the forum, hehe

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

I'm sorry to hear that too, Logan. I don't think anyone should leave PT because of the doghouse. Just stay out of the doghouse like we normally do. Funny how all of us that normally don't come here ended up in this thread. I hope whoever it is takes a little time out if that's what he/she needs and then comes back. It's at times like this I think the dog house should be banned. After all, this is a pet page. Why are we talking about politics here? I'm sure there are plenty of other venues on the net if we really wanted to get into politics, but this is PT, lets talk about our pets!

[aly]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
It's at times like this I think the dog house should be banned. After all, this is a pet page. Why are we talking about politics here? I'm sure there are plenty of other venues on the net if we really wanted to get into politics, but this is PT, lets talk about our pets!

I totally agree. I've said this before, but I liked it better when there was no Dog House. General is a good section for some conversations that aren't pet-related. I don't see any reason for us to have so many controversial non-pet related topics though. I know Karen and Paul created it with the best of intentions though, so that people who wanted to stay out of the controversial threads didn't even have to open this section at all.

[tatsxxx11]

You're so right Debbie. How often do we tell each other, JUST DON'T GO THERE! I understand that this can be a very "hot" place and tempers flare and all of us have passionate feelings about our beliefs. Whenever I do come here, I come more to interject something for thought and contemplation and also with the hopes that perhaps I will learn something. I try not to take offense at other's opinions, not to take their reamarks personally, and hope that others will express their opinions with respect and in a manner that does not offend as well. I don't like to argue but I do like to hear and read what others are thinking because I don't think it's healthy to insulate one's self from the thinking of others, if only to better understand their positions. We are ALL entitled to our opinions and it's been my experience, if you dare to venture into this Dog House forum, and choose to loudly and passionately express your opinions, you have to be expect that others will respond with equal fervor and passion.

I haven't commented much at all on the political threads, for fear of getting bashed. BOTH sides have made snide, rude, personal, remarks regarding the candidates, their families and the opposing party in general. Whenever I laid down the challenge to have a calm, rational discussion of the ISSUES...no one replied to my thread. The tenor had become extremely combative and had sunk to a level that was less than conducive to intelligent conversation. Right now, just putting on the TV, tuning into the radio, listening to the rude, snickering, nasty, demeaning, devissive remarks of those on the "other" side, I feel as though I do not belong here; that I am not a part of the "real" America, not one of those who holds REAL values. I am part of the "blue left wing fringe" in a RED America. It's depressing me to a degree I can't express. I am a good and caring person and hold more empathy in my heart for my fellow man than I can express. I am NOT without values, faithless, unpatriotic. I am American as much as anyone who voted for the the other candidate. The people have spoken and we must respect that he is our President for the next four years. But i will NEVER be intimated, allow myself to pigeonholed into being characterized as something I am not.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
I am part of the "blue left wing fringe" in a RED America. It's depressing me to a degree I can't express.

Does it help any to know you're not alone on the fringe? 'Cause I'm right there with you, and I know of at least one other that holds my views too, and I'm thinking Aly will join us too.

[K9soul]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
I am part of the "blue left wing fringe" in a RED America. It's depressing me to a degree I can't express.

Sandra, I'm right there with you and understand how you feel. I also feel that no matter how much someone differs from me in my beliefs, everyone is due respect and should be able to speak their mind without getting insulting and degrading. There are many people at PT who feel differently than I do on some things but I don't respect them one iota less for it, but sadly it does affect my respect for somone when I see them get mean and petty and cruel with others. Even if someone is mean and petty to me first, it doesn't excuse me doing the same thing. The best thing to do in that situation is to just walk away, but I know that when tempers and emotions are flared it isn't always that easy.

Well, I'm very saddened and sickened at heart that someone has decided to leave PT from all of this..

[aly]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
Does it help any to know you're not alone on the fringe? 'Cause I'm right there with you, and I know of at least one other that holds my views too, and I'm thinking Aly will join us too.

Yes You guys are not alone.

I had the same feelings as Sandra when I heard some guy from the Fox News Network GLOATING in a way that I didn't think anyone would ever do, especially on TV. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!

Wasn't that an hour or so ago that I said I'd stay out of the dog house? Hehehe, oppsie

[lizzielou742]

Me too y'all!

Remember, 55 million Americans voted for Kerry!

Also, check out these maps, it helped me!

Very Cool 3D Election Voter by county map;
http://www.esri.com/industries/elect...lts2004_lg.jpg

A Purple Nation:
http://www.boingboing.net/images/Purple-USA.jpg

I also think it's sad that someone felt they wanted to leave because of one particular section of PT. This is a very heated time of year, and I'm sure the political threads will calm down soon.

[tatsxxx11]

Yes Debbie, Aly and Jess, you have made me feel better And like all of you have said, I will continue, with every fiber of my being, to respect the beliefs of others and accept the mandate of the country. I just can't shake this sickening feeling. First I get bashed for being a Yankee fan in exile in Boston and now this... Hey, you gotta laugh! I know...this is a great country and our differences, and our right to express our opinions and be heard, sets us above all other nations on earth...Amen!

[aly]

Originally posted by popcornbird
I *am* doing my best in keeping my mouth shut though. I'm just reading the threads...and commenting in my head.

I'm sure if you comment, everyone will respect your opinion. The comments that are done in harsh, negative tones are the ones that are not respected. I'm sure you'd do it in a nice way. Unless of course there is an evil side to PCB that I don't know about

[tatsxxx11]

No one's commenting with malice, PCB, so jump right in! Actually, I think it's healthy to honestly express our feelings for a change, the hurt or offense we may rightly or wrongly be feeling. I think we all feel hurt in some way and talking about that is a good thing, and a first MAJOR step in getting to understand one another better and where we are coming from! I admit it, I feel miserable...disenfranchised and maligned. Let it rip, PCB