Eeeek No obedience classes for Jasper....

[cali]

I'm pretty sure all obedience classes require you to have a choke collar,

yah where you are lol, even the negitive trainers here dont allow choke collars, and everyone strongly discourages them, exept one trainor I took happys to was horrable, she was scared of them so instead of trying to earn her trust they yelled at her and yanked her by the collar over to them, told me she had problems and orderd that next week she had better being wearing a halter, needless to say we NEVER went back! I say choose your trainor wisley we took happy to privet sessions with a positive clicker trainer and she worked wonders, no negitive whatsoever all positive and calm, and working at her own pace, gaining happys trust gently and she had happy meeting new people without so much as a growl after 1 session, had her happly enjoying the company of the trainors dogs within 2 weeks, say find a good clicker trainer lol they work wonders

[GoldenRetrLuver]

That's why I said most trainers require them, at least where I am, or what I've heard.

I like the choke collar. I think it's a good training tool. But, everyone can have different opinions.

[binka_nugget]

Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
That's why I said most trainers require them, at least where I am, or what I've heard.

I like the choke collar. I think it's a good training tool. But, everyone can have different opinions.

Yup, agree to disagree. I'll be going to a more positive training method with my future dogs first but I have no problem going back to this method if any of my dogs are like Kai.

[DogLover9501]

Where I go to train choke, prawn and other collars like that are forbidden in all classes. They prefer instead that the dogs have flat nylon buckle collars, and use only positive reinforcement. They work with the owner and dog until they find something that motivates the dog to work. For some it's food, others toys and others it's just a willingness to please.

Thats what I would like, a class like that, Jasper does have a willingness to please, hes already learned sit, lay down, stay, and give both paws in about one month

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by DogLover9501
I e-mailed the trainer back, and asked methods of training a while ago, anyway her responce made me quickly change my mind, here is what she said:
"We use positive/negative reinforcement by using a choke collar and a 6 foot leather leash"
Ugh no way!

I would just ask if you have to use one. They may just recommend it, but not require it. Ask if you can go with him just on a normal collar. Any training classes have something you can learn from them, and if these are the only ones offerred in your area then at least he will get som dog socialization, and learn to work for you with other distractions.

I have used a slip chain to train, and while I prefer other methods now, I don't think it's all bad if used properly. I have put a chain on and given myself a proper correction and so I do know how it feels. A proper correction does not choke the dog, in fact the collar hits the back and side of the neck, not across the front.

I have also used a pinch collar (not on my shelties, on some dobermans and a great dane) and I've also put that collar on as well so I know what it feels like. I was suprised that it wasn't as bad as you would think it would be.

Out of all the collars I've tried on myself I think the only one I would never use is an electric collar.

Anyways to get back to the original topic, I think you should go and observe a class and talk to the trainer before completely making up your mind.

Oh one more thing that's just a personal observation of trainers in my area, I've found that trainers that use praise/corrections are more open minded than ones that use purely positive methods. I'm not saying that's the case everywhere, it's just what I've observed in my immediate area.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Not if the dog pulls. It chokes them if they pull. Hence the name 'choke' collar.

If the dog pulls you would correct it, which involves making slack in the leash and then popping the leash out to the side (not backwards) so that the correction is delivered correctly. Generally you don't let the dog get the collar tight enough to choke itself before correcting.
And I've always thought it was called a "choke" collar because of people who didn't know how to use it properly letting their dogs pull until it was tight under the impression that if the dog was smart it would stop pulling and thus stop choking itself. Unfortunately that's not how the collar works and in factm ost dogs will pull against the pressure they feel and then choke themselves more.

There are of course many many other and better ways to prevent pulling.

[K9soul]

Shelteez reminded me that they are more often being called a slip collar or slip chain now. Our dog class trainer was very careful to show how to put it on, and how to use it so that it didn't choke the dog, but worked the way Shelteez described. I've also heard it referred to as a training collar, and that the "snap" is not so much a correction as it is to focus the dog's attention back to what they are doing.

Our instructor encouraged it especially so that the dog has a specific collar associated with a training session. She spoke about a lot of varying reinforcements such as treats, the clicker trainers, and good old fashioned praise. I felt she explained things pretty well.

For a dog that is bad with pulling, I personally really prefer the halti collar.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by K9soul
For a dog that is bad with pulling, I personally really prefer the halti collar.

I think of the halti as more of a band-aid to pulling. Most dogs can't pull with it on (although some can and I've had one dog darn near yank my arm out of the socket), but it doesn't do anything to teach the dog that it can't pull. Which is fine if all you want is to be able to control your dog on a walk. For me personally I'd rather have a dog that didn't pull regardless of the type of collar it was wearing.

[binka_nugget]

Something interesting I found. This part I found particularly interesting:

A Study on Prong Collars was done in Germany:
100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong.
The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.
Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.
Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma.

I think I might change to the prong collar. The slip doesn't seem to be working for Kai's walking (it works fine for his obedience work though). I'll definately need something that tightens because he's a stinker when it comes to walking. He likes to pull backwards and has slipped out of flat collars before...I'll have to ask the trainer what she thinks.