What a terrible and wonderful thread. It is terrible for obvious reasons. However, it is wonderful because it is preaching that we (pet talkers) should be the beginning of the end of these practices. I'm sorry that you had to experience such horrible things and you have no idea how glad I am that you broke that chain. I think it is already starting to get better because I don't know anyone who is that extreme. As Karen already said, it is a good thing your father didn't meet mine either Thank you for putting things into perspective.