what is w/ people and vets

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by Veggan
....but it is my personal belief that our pets were brought into this world by us breeding them, and therefore it is our responsibility to give them the best care possible while they are in our care. Anyhoo.. just my opinion

Veggan, you are so right, I totally agree.

I feel that anyone who can't/won't provide necessary vet care for their pet, should not be allowed to own animals.

[Jessica12345]

veegan you are so right.... very well said!

[cali]

And about the tail.. sure it may heal on its own, but so would any wound on any other animal. However! I can only imagine how painful that would be! I dont know about you, but Id rather my pet's wound be treated than it suffer in pain while it heals

but thats just it the gerbil would NOT be in pain. the end of a gerbils tail is supossed to come off, it is a defence mechanism, just like a iguanas tail comes off so does a gerbils, that is why I had the problem with it.

and I dont think that they dont deserve to go the vet just because they are small. my dogs rarly go to the vet, I have not been to the docter since I was really young. my critters have never been to the vet. every single one of them has lived long healthy lives. my gerbils have lived to be 6 years old and one that I gave to a friend from the first litter just died last summer, she was 8 years old. her gerbil did not go to the vet either. we simpley do a bunch of research and care for the problem ourselves.

fo those that are able to take their critters everywhere? that great! I am glad you are able to do that, so if you felt they needed a vet they would not be really stressed about it.

I am problibly made because I know what vets are like around here. their are zippo exotics vets, or reptile vets or bird vets. I would never take ANYTHING for an annual vet visit not even people. my dogs dont go, I dont go and my critters dont go. I prefer that if an animal is going to die, that is die in the comfort of its home. and if and animal is sick I think they will get better faster if they are not in some starnge place they have never seen before and no comfort of their "parents". guess what a gerbil of mine broke her back a while ago, I gave her extra loves and made sure she was cozy in her HOME and guess what? she got better. she has since passed on of old age(6 years old) a vet would have put her down I bet. I dont trust vets or any doctors for that matter. JMHO

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by Cali
I would never take ANYTHING for an annual vet visit not even people. my dogs dont go, I dont go and my critters dont go.

I might have this wrong but surely, you take your dogs for yearly booster vaccinations.

[cali]

nope we dont beleive in shots. its not good for them. they get a parvo shot as a puppy and that is it. unless we are travaling out of the the country or something wich does not happen. but nope no shots for my babies, it ruined one dog(litterally) we are not taking any chances. my mom is apart of a mailing list called "just say no to vax" and I agree with it to.

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by cali
nope we dont beleive in shots. its not good for them. they get a parvo shot as a puppy and that is it. unless we are travaling out of the the country or something wich does not happen. but nope no shots for my babies, it ruined one dog(litterally) we are not taking any chances. my mom is apart of a mailing list called "just say no to vax" and I agree with it to.

Well I certainly hope you don't get any of your dogs near other dogs. I don't know how it is where you are, bu the rabies vaccine is required by law here.

How did it "ruin" your dog?

[cali]

here their are no vaccins required by law. our vet(holistic) does not recomend vaccines either. its the rabis vaccin that ruined my dog. she was a very happy dog(hence the name "happy") she loved everyone went to greet people and other dogs happily. she gets her Rabies shot. she freaks out at the sight of a person or dog, it took her nearly 2 years to learn to trust my best friend again, who she has known since I got her. she quivers with fear at anything and everything. either that or she lashes out in fear. her breeder had done lotes of socialization with the pups to make sure they would not grow up to be chickens. happy was well soclaized and everything, she gets her rabies shot and boom she is a different dog.

oh and my dogs are around other dogs all the time, nearly every day, at the park or flyball or obedience classes, on walks they get top play with the naighbors dogs ect....

[aly]

*faints*

You take your dogs around that many other dogs and they never get vaccines????????????????

They aren't on heartworm preventative or flea/tick preventative?

They don't get bordatella vaccine?

You would be denied in about 30 seconds flat at both shelters I work at. Animals NEED yearly check ups. You are very lucky you don't have a bunch of dead animals on your hands.

[aly]

I can't BELIEVE an obedience class would let you in without a vet record. I assist with obedience at two different places and they both require vaccinations to be up to date. The agility and pet therapy groups require the same.

I am sure there is more to the story about the vaccination that "ruined" your dog. I find it difficult to believe one shot took a dog 2 years to get over.

[wolfsoul]

I'm going to agree with everyone here. I believe that they should be taken to the vet when they need it, but there is always a limit. When you say that your animal has been a little down, and people start screaming for you to take it to a vet, than I would think that's a little too much. Leave it for a day, see if it's happy in the morning. That doesn't apply to serious things though.

We don't have a vet that specializes in rats We have one place that specializes in exotic pets in general, but rats aren't their specialty

[veegan]

well, my family has never gone on yearly checkups, and our pets havent either, but my dad's a vet. so yeah, I guess I dont really count. lol

and crap I cant remember where I heard/read this.. but I read an article recently about a study this vet has been doing for MANY years about the effectivness/necessity of vaccines. basically he believed that in general vaccines are over used, but there are some that definately should be done. and I think it said his findings are being well recieved and a lot of vets are also practicingthis way. I will go look for the article.. Im sure Im probably getting some of this info wrong. lol

as for the tail thing, sorry I probably sounded ignorant lol cause I know nothing about gerbils, but the tail thing was just an example really. if it had a serious cut in its side, or A BROKEN BACK I would either take it to the vet to be looked at/fixed, or if there was nothing we could do, maybe consider having it euthanized because I cant even imagine how extremely painful that would be! although I wonder, are you sure it broke its back? i mean, wouldnt it be paralyzed?? And I still dont understand why youre so angry about someone taking their gerbil to have its tail sutured.. I mean that person obviously cares about their pet, so whats the big deal? Maybe they were afraid of infection.

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heres the article!:
Annual Dog Vaccines May Be Unnecessary
Study: Overvaccination May Jeopardize Dog's Health
POSTED: 4:28 p.m. EST March 17, 2003

Once a year, Ronald Schultz checks the antibody levels in his dogs'blood. Why? He says for proof that most annual vaccines are unnecessary. Schultz, professor of pathobiological sciences at the University of Wisconsin-Madison School of Veterinary Medicine, has been studying the effectiveness of canine vaccines since the 1970s; he's learned that immunity can last as long as a dog's lifetime, which suggests that our "best friends" are being overvaccinated.

Based on his findings, a community of canine vaccine experts has developed new veterinary recommendations that could eliminate a dog's need for annual shots. The guidelines appear in the March/April issue of Trends, the journal of the American Animal Hospital Association. Every year, when we take our dogs to the veterinarian's office, they could receive up to 16 different vaccines, many of which are combined into a single shot. Four of these products protect against life-threatening diseases, including rabies, canine parvovirus type 2, canine distemper virus and canine adenovirus type 2; the rest protect against milder diseases to which only some dogs are exposed, including Lyme disease. But, as many veterinarians are realizing, overvaccination can actually jeopardize a dog's health. Side effects can cause skin problems, allergic reactions and autoimmune disease. And in cats, tumors have been reported at the site of vaccine injections. "These adverse reactions have caused many veterinarians to rethink the issue of vaccination," Schultz said. "The idea that unnecessary vaccines can cause serious side effects is in direct conflict with sound medical practices." For 30 years, Schultz has been examining the need to vaccinate animals so often and for so many diseases. "In the 1970s, I started thinking about our immune response to pathogens and how similar it is in other animals," Schultz said. "That's when I started to question veterinary vaccination practices." Just like ours, a canine's immune system fires up when a pathogen, like a virus, enters the body. The pathogen releases a protein called an antigen, which calls into action the immune system's special disease-fighting cells. These cells not only destroy the virus, but they remember what it looked like so they can fend it off in the future. It's this immunological memory that enables vaccines, which purposely contain live, weakened or dead pathogens, to protect against future disease.

But, as Schultz points out, vaccines can keep people immune for a lifetime: We're usually inoculated for measles, mumps and rubella as children but never as adults. So, can dogs be vaccinated as pups and then never again?

While evidence from Schultz's studies on both his own dogs and many other dogs from controlled studies suggests the answer is yes, Schultz recommends a more conservative plan based on duration of immunity and individual risk. Schultz said that core vaccines, or the ones that protect against life-threatening disease, are essential for all dogs, yet he does not recommend dogs receive these shots yearly. He said that, with the exception of the rabies vaccine, they should last at least seven years. Rabies shots, on the other hand, have shown to last about three years. For these reasons, Schultz suggests that dogs receive rabies shots every three years (as is required by law in most states) and the other core vaccines no more frequently than every three years. Some less serious vaccines, on the other hand, have a much shorter duration of immunity, lasting around one year. But, as Schultz points out, not every dog should get these types of vaccines, because not every dog is at risk for exposure. Today, many vaccinated dogs receive a shot for Lyme disease. But Schultz said that the ticks carrying the Lyme disease pathogen can be found in only a few regions of the United States. "The vaccine can cause adverse effects such as mild arthritis, allergy or other immune diseases. Like all vaccines, it should only be used when the animal is at significant risk," he said. Another common vaccine that Schultz says is unnecessary protects against "kennel cough," an often mild and transient disease contracted during boarding or dog shows. "Most pet dogs that do not live in breeding kennels, are not boarded, do not go to dog shows and have only occasional contact with dogs outside their immediate family, rarely need to be vaccinated or revaccinated for kennel cough," he said. Schultz said it's important for veterinarians to recognize an individual dog's risk for developing a particular disease when considering the benefits of a vaccine. Giving a vaccine that's not needed creates an unnecessary risk to the animal, he said. Schultz admitted that recommending that dogs receive fewer vaccines may spark controversy, especially since many veterinarians rely on annual vaccines to bring in clients, along with income. But annual visits are important for many reasons other than shots. "Checking for heartworm, tumors, dermatological problems and tooth decay should be done on a yearly basis," he said. "Plus, some dogs, depending on their risk, may need certain vaccines annually." Rather than vaccinating on each visit, veterinarians can use a recently developed test that checks dogs' immunity against certain diseases. Schultz said veterinarians who have switched to the three-year, instead of annual, vaccination program have found no increase in the number of dogs with vaccine-preventable diseases. "Every day, more and more people in the profession are embracing the change," Schultz said. The new vaccination guidelines are supported by the AAHA, along with the task force members representing the American Colleges of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Veterinary Microbiology and the American Association of Veterinary Immunologists.

[cali]

well if something is truly serious of coarse we would take them to the vet. a holistic vet that is, never again will we take our dogs to a allopathic vet. and the classes are run by th eoriginal memebers of our dogs club. I am one of them, so we are not checked and no flea or tick preventions or heartworm, we dont need it. kibble fed dogs need it BARF fed do not. vaccins are a allopathic prevention. exposure is a holistic prevention. we do things holisticly. if you have a problem with holistic ways deal with it. no shots? that is out vets advice she has been a holistic vet for 15 years, she has many awards, and does lectures all over the place. her dogs ar ethe same as our, they ar evet BARF diet, and receive only a killed parvo shot as a puppy.

and aly happy is still not over that rabies shot, she is getting better but she got that shot 3 years ago now. and yes it was just one minut she is happy go lucky lovin everyone and everything type of dag she gets her Rabies shot and bang she is a different dog. and by the way happys reaction is not that uncommen. and why why is the world would they get a bordatella vaccine when they are not being put in a kennel????

You are very lucky you don't have a bunch of dead animals on your hands.

all my animals are in perfect health. they had titers done and they all have amazing immunity health coats never had heartworm or fleas or ticks, or any sickness for that matter

[JGuitaristR]

Well, make sure not to go to the hospital when one of your limbs gets chopped off, afterall, it's nothing life-threatening. People like you annoy me. It's still a living thing, it needs to be cared for.

[cali]

ok who said anything about life threatning???? I said if the problem is truly serious. as in if the animal got hit by a car of were in a huge fight, or something THEN they would go to the vet. my mom brok her arm and was in a car accendent nmeither time did she even get checked out by the way

[Jessica12345]

Originally posted by cali
my mom brok her arm and was in a car accendent nmeither time did she even get checked out by the way

not to be taken the wrong way but i would rather have my arm fixed than walk around in pain. so that is what i would do with my animals. they deserve to be treated like us.