Gertrude Janeway, a civil war widow dies

[mugsy]

Interesting stuff. I guess love knows no boundaries. I wouldn't ever do that, but, like was said earlier, if she never married again, it had to have been for real. I'll have to tell my kids at school that one. I came home sick today, so I'll do it tomorrow.

[lynnestankard]

I wouldn't think her husband John had lots of money - look at the three room house where they lived - I think she honestly loved him because after he dies she never married again - and she was a young woman of 28 with her own home - she probabley had offers, but the fact she remained true to his memory is so touching. He was obviously her all - so a lot of people find the age gap disgusting - it's nothing to do with anyone else - it was their choice.
In this day of easy come - easy go - I found this whole story wonderful.
Thanks for the link Paul.

Lynne

[Twisterdog]

Generalizations don't work. I would not say, "well, I am coming from a man's point of view which is pure love. Not a women's point of view requires youthful physical beauty."

No, no, no ... that's not what I meant at all ... what I meant was, in this particular case ... the man is 81 and the woman is 18. So, sure, the men are going to think this is a great deal ... he gets the sweet young thing. And the women are thinking, "Not for all the tea in China would I do that!"

If the tables were turned, and the woman were 81 and the man was 18, I'm sure the women would be saying, "You go, girl!" and the men would be saying, "Eeewwwww!!!!"

Interesting to note, I think, that we do often hear about young women marrying much older men .... but very, very rarely do we hear about young men marrying much older women. (I remember one very old movie star who was married to a very young man, but I can't remember her name.) So ... can one say that in general women are more likely than men to marry their true loves without regard to age or physical appearance?

And, she may very well have married for true love, no one knows but her. If she did, great. Hey, if she didn't, great. She made an old man happy during his last ten years, and got a house out of the bargain.

I wasn't bashing her, or him ... I was just being a smart mouth. Can you tell I'm a "bit" of a cynic about the whole "true love at first sight" thing?

[Karen]

Ah, but Twisterdog, no one said it was "love at first sight" - after all, he first asked when she was 15, and then waited three years until she was 18. Lots of MARRIAGES these days are over in less time than those two waited to marry.

I think that this story shows that love knows no bounds. If she says she loved him, I believe her, and who can explain love?

May-December marriages occur in both directions, we hear about the older man, younger woman ones more often, but that does not mean the opposite does not happen.

I am 24 days OLDER than Paul, and he married me anyway!

We often see animals that other people might think unlovable, but we at Pet Talk love them.

[Twisterdog]

Hey, I told you ... I'm a cynic!

Twenty-four DAYS! Oh, my ... what a scandal!

My brother-in-law is 15 years older than my sister, and my step-grandfather was 11 years younger than my grandmother ... and she still outlived him!

[Paul]

   To me it did not matter which spouse was male and which was female.

      Paul

[popcornbird]

I still think its weird (and gross). Ok, she may have loved him, but she was a small little teenie tiny child compared to him! He was an old old man soon to die, and this young girl had her whole life ahead of her. She could have loved him as a grandfather, or great-grandfather, but as a husband? Yuck! Personally, I wouldn't get married at 18 in the first place, and at 21, I wouldn't even get married to someone in his 30's. It might be just me, but I don't like such age gaps, because they usually think differently. (But this is not even an age gap, that's a 3-4 generations gap! ) It may not have been a big deal to marry older people in that time, but 18-81 has been abnormal since the creation of mankind. Maybe 20-30 or 20-40, or even 20-50 would be acceptable in those days.....................but 18-81? I don't think so. Paul, you are thinking with a man's point of view. WE think from a girl's point of view. Girls don't care about men as much as men care about girls. You can't even get a child from an 81 year old man, can't raise a family, can lose him any day as he's in the end of his life, and would have to live an entire lifetime of loneliness. I also think its gross for an 18 year old girl to think of an 81 year old "grand-daddy" as a husband. In that picture, it looks like he posing with a child, with his granddaughter! Again, MY opinion. I wouldn't marry an 81 year old if I was 60!

Karen, 24 days is nothing. Same age. 18-81 is a 4 generation gap.

[Karen]

Popcornbird, why do you think physical age means so much to you? It obviously didn't to Gertrude!

Of all the men I have ever known and been friends with, Paul is the most logically minded and capable of being neutral about things. Did he ever once say "What a great deal for that man?" No. So why do you assume that's what he was thinking?

Love is exceptional. That means it makes exceptions for all sorts of things, whether or not you, or society as a whole, understands!

I have known young-minded 90-year-olds, and old-minded, close-minded 18-year-olds. Haven't you?

[popcornbird]

I'm not assuming Paul takes it in that way. I meant that men normally wouldn't think of it as big of a deal as women would. I know that there are many people with large age gaps and make wonderful couples, however, 18-81 is just TOO much.

[lynnestankard]

(quoted from Popcornbird.....but 18-81 has been abnormal since the creation of mankind. Maybe 20-30 or 20-40, or even 20-50 would be acceptable in those days.....................)

Hate to disagree PCB but back in the dark ages it was THE done thing for old men to marry young women. I know you're not christian but even Joseph was an old man when he married a very young girl called Mary. And this is not just a Christian 'thing' it happened through all religions, colours and creeds - a man had to work and prove his worth and by the time he could afford to marry - he was old.
I'd be so interested to hear your views on this when you reach 30!

Lynne

[Edwina's Secretary]

Popcornbird -- first you must look at this in its historic context -- NOT through the eyes of a teenager in 2003 with a world full of options and possiblities.

The average life expectancy was 47 years, only 14% of US households had a bathtub, most women only washed their hair once a month, and the third leading cause of death was diarrhea.

She was disabled, her father (who sired a child at 68!) had died. As the oldest child she would have been responsible for her mother and younger brothers. We can assume she was not well educated and had limited opportunity for education.

She meet a man who was willing to court her and wait two years, with whom she could sit and talk for hours, who was willing to help support her widowed mother and brothers. She was a lucky woman indeed.

As for "not able to give her a child".....try the actor Jack Lemmon. He fathered children recently and I believe he is in his 80's.

As for history...I encourage you to read about some of the US presidents....Grover Cleveland -- married his ward, Tyler -- after his beloved wife's death he married a VERY young woman and had 12 children with her.

Love is strange and unpredictable. Judge not, lest you be judged!

(BTW...my husband is 3 years younger than me...

)

[ramanth]

What an endearing story. Thank you for sharing it Paul.

It wasn't uncommon for arranged marriages of younger women to older men back in the days.

Love really knows no bounds.

[Logan]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
Popcornbird -- first you must look at this in its historic context -- NOT through the eyes of a teenager in 2003 with a world full of options and possiblities.

The average life expectancy was 47 years, only 14% of US households had a bathtub, most women only washed their hair once a month, and the third leading cause of death was diarrhea.

She was disabled, her father (who sired a child at 68!) had died. As the oldest child she would have been responsible for her mother and younger brothers. We can assume she was not well educated and had limited opportunity for education.

She meet a man who was willing to court her and wait two years, with whom she could sit and talk for hours, who was willing to help support her widowed mother and brothers. She was a lucky woman indeed.

As for "not able to give her a child".....try the actor Jack Lemmon. He fathered children recently and I believe he is in his 80's.

As for history...I encourage you to read about some of the US presidents....Grover Cleveland -- married his ward, Tyler -- after his beloved wife's death he married a VERY young woman and had 12 children with her.

Love is strange and unpredictable. Judge not, lest you be judged!

(BTW...my husband is 3 years younger than me...

)

Excellent analogy, Sara, exactly what I was trying to say, but I didn't do it nearly as well. In fact, in one of the articles, she said she had a 5th grade education, but still was an avid reader. I truly believe that the time and location paid a huge part in this. She certainly sounded like a happy woman in her interview.

And by the way, I married a man 5 years younger than I am!!!

[Dixieland Dancer]

I think it is great to know you were loved that much! There was a guy who I went to school with who had some outward physical blemishes that made most people not even want to look at him let alone fall in love with him. I was his friend and he had a very sweet personality.

Several years after we graduated I got a letter from him thanking me for being his friend and how hard it was for him day in and day out with people sneering and making fun of him. Then he invited me to his wedding! He was marrying a lady 9 years older than he was! He explained how she loved him for who he was not what he was!

They have been married over 20 years now and have children and are in as much love now as they ever were. It is an inspiration to see them together! Why do we feel the need to catagorize people because of their looks or age? If you encounter one true love in your life (no matter the age) then you are truly blessed in this life.

Many people marry today out of lust and physical attraction and then are divorced a year later or continue in a miserable relationship. What benefit it this to life???? Give me the true love relationship anyday!! WAY TO GO JANE! I'm sure your true love was waiting for you when you got to the bridge!!!!

[sammi]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
[B]Popcornbird -- first you must look at this in its historic context -- NOT through the eyes of a teenager in 2003 with a world full of options and possiblities.

The average life expectancy was 47 years, only 14% of US households had a bathtub, most women only washed their hair once a month, and the third leading cause of death was diarrhea.

She was disabled, her father (who sired a child at 68!) had died. As the oldest child she would have been responsible for her mother and younger brothers. We can assume she was not well educated and had limited opportunity for education.

She meet a man who was willing to court her and wait two years, with whom she could sit and talk for hours, who was willing to help support her widowed mother and brothers. She was a lucky woman indeed.


I have been thinking about the age gap also and I think the above hits the nail on the head. I think they really loved each other and it was not strange in that time. I think that if she would have been older (say 20) when they first started courting many of us would not have thought it was so odd. But I do think in this day and age if anyone of you had a daughter around that age (say 14) and a man in his 80's was intersted in her romantically that would send off a alarm. But, that was a whole different time.
A very good friend of mine just lost her husband at ?age 83 -she is around 49. They were married for aver 20 years. I have a relative that has been in a long term relationship with a gal who is 12 years older than him.