Gun control discussion

[blue]

Thank you Pom for letting me know my response was sufficient.

[Lady's Human]

To get back on topic....

Finally a statement of fact about the issue from Vice President Biden:

"Nothing we are going to do is fundamentally going to alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deaths down," Biden said, echoing remarks President Barack Obama made in January when he said "there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely."

That being the case, let's try just for a moment enforcing the laws currently on the books, eliminating the barriers against including psychological information in NICS checks, and move on without restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens.

[lizbud]

"Nothing we are going to do is fundamentally going to alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deaths down," Biden said, echoing remarks President Barack Obama made in January when he said "there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely."

The same could be said about traffic offenses, shoplifting, cheating on your income taxes, harrassing your next door neighbor or deciding to hold a party right in the middle
of downtown traffic.

We will never completely stop people from doing any dumb thing they think up to do, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make it unlawful. Think about it. We can't NOT ACT
just because some people will break the law anyway.

Just because the constitution allows citizens to buy a weapon doesn't mean they can purchase ANY type of weapon their little hearts desire. Would you like your neighbor to have
a cannon in his front yard? Having limits can be a good thing.

[Lady's Human]

The same could be said about traffic offenses, shoplifting, cheating on your income taxes, harrassing your next door neighbor or deciding to hold a party right in the middle
of downtown traffic.

We will never completely stop people from doing any dumb thing they think up to do, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make it unlawful. Think about it. We can't NOT ACT
just because some people will break the law anyway.

Just because the constitution allows citizens to buy a weapon doesn't mean they can purchase ANY type of weapon their little hearts desire. Would you like your neighbor to have
a cannon in his front yard? Having limits can be a good thing.

A cannon? No problem. As long as the requisite legalities are taken care of, no issues whatsoever.

The examples you list are examples of people breaking existing laws. There's no constitutional right to do any of the things listed. However, there is a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, upheld by the SCOTUS as an individual right. There are already limits on that right that have been enacted in law and adjudicated as appropriate limits. There is no need for further limits, despite the fearmongering by the media. Had psychiatric conditions been a limiting reason to restrict access to firearms, most of the recent events wouldn't have occurred, however, the right to patient privacy is evidently more important than a truly effective NICS system.

[RICHARD]

A cannon? No problem. As long as the requisite legalities are taken care of, no issues whatsoever.

The examples you list are examples of people breaking existing laws. There's no constitutional right to do any of the things listed. However, there is a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, upheld by the SCOTUS as an individual right. There are already limits on that right that have been enacted in law and adjudicated as appropriate limits. There is no need for further limits, despite the fearmongering by the media. Had psychiatric conditions been a limiting reason to restrict access to firearms, most of the recent events wouldn't have occurred, however, the right to patient privacy is evidently more important than a truly effective NICS system.

http://carbide-cannons.carbidecannon.org/

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Just had a discussion about Sandy Hook versus Aurora (versus Columbine/VA Tech and every other mass) shooting.

I guess some high school kids being shot wasn't as bad as a theater full of people, but a school full of kids gets people to 'act'?

I find it kinda strange that we refuse to put the same price on every life.

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The Diane Feinstein gun act is exactly that, an act.

It's a stupid, minimalist approach (Can you say pretend) to a the existing gun laws.

I had a great laugh about DF going after a gun with a folding stock.

What?

WIH does a folding butt stock have to do with the lethality of a gun?
If you decide carry 12 ten round magazines how is that different than carrying 4 thirty round mags?
Does a foregrip on a gun make it deadlier?

You'd have to ask her, I really don't have an answer.

[cassiesmom]

To get back on topic....

Finally a statement of fact about the issue from Vice President Biden:

"Nothing we are going to do is fundamentally going to alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deaths down," Biden said, echoing remarks President Barack Obama made in January when he said "there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely."

That being the case, let's try just for a moment enforcing the laws currently on the books, eliminating the barriers against including psychological information in NICS checks, and move on without restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens.

Dear VP Biden: Have you paid any attention to what's happened in Chicago this week? A girl with a very promising future was killed when she happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you, as the head of the task force, think that nothing you might do will help -- what does that say to America? Do your best to at least try to come up with something. Meanwhile, if you could help those charged with enforcing the current laws to do their jobs better, that would be a good start. Especially here in Chicago where the people are doing the shooting are at risk of ending up dead or imprisoned. Please listen to all the pastors and mothers and other people who are saying that something must change.

[Karen]

Dear VP Biden: Have you paid any attention to what's happened in Chicago this week? A girl with a very promising future was killed when she happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you, as the head of the task force, think that nothing you might do will help -- what does that say to America? Do your best to at least try to come up with something. Meanwhile, if you could help those charged with enforcing the current laws to do their jobs better, that would be a good start. Especially here in Chicago where the people are doing the shooting are at risk of ending up dead or imprisoned. Please listen to all the pastors and mothers and other people who are saying that something must change.

I feel sorry for the mothers and families of Chicago (and everywhere) whose lives are marred by this violence. But I doubt the guns involved were purchased legally, or the perpetrators have any fear of repercussions from using them illegally. More needs to change in the culture of these neighborhoods - wherever they are - than any law will fix, no matter how far-reaching and specific. Serious, long-term work needs to be done addressing the causes of the violence, which is more to the heart of the matter than the guns by which it gets expressed.

I do think we also need to address the mental health aspect of this, in most "school shootings" cases that make the news, there were red flags raised about the mental health of the eventual shooter, but because of patient privacy laws, nothing was done. But targeting the weapons themselves is far simpler and politically more newsworthy than addressing that difficult, complex, legally and ethically difficult issue of mental health.

[Lady's Human]

CM, if the inanimate objects were the heart of the problem, then there would be far more violent deaths in, for instance, rural areas of upstate New York than there are in Chicago, as firearms are far more prevalent in rural areas than they are in cities.

Most people have them, no one, frankly, cares. As stated earlier in the thread they are simply a part of the landscape.

It's not the firearms, it's the people. You could address the tools all day long, but unless you do something about the root cause of the violence then nothing will change.

[RICHARD]

CM, if the inanimate objects were the heart of the problem, then there would be far more violent deaths in, for instance, rural areas of upstate New York than there are in Chicago, as firearms are far more prevalent in rural areas than they are in cities.

Most people have them, no one, frankly, cares. As stated earlier in the thread they are simply a part of the landscape.

It's not the firearms, it's the people. You could address the tools all day long, but unless you do something about the root cause of the violence then nothing will change.

Assign Eric Holder to monitor the guns. They'll disappear....

[cassiesmom]

CM, if the inanimate objects were the heart of the problem, then there would be far more violent deaths in, for instance, rural areas of upstate New York than there are in Chicago, as firearms are far more prevalent in rural areas than they are in cities.

Most people have them, no one, frankly, cares. As stated earlier in the thread they are simply a part of the landscape.

It's not the firearms, it's the people. You could address the tools all day long, but unless you do something about the root cause of the violence then nothing will change.

There seems to be a lot of finger-pointing. Mayor Emanuel should do something. Or the Chicago schools should do more. Or it's up to Gov. Quinn and the legislature to make better laws. Or the police aren't doing enough. Or the problem is lack of jobs. Or the problem is drugs. Or someone needs to do something about family instability. Round and round we go. There seem to be a lot of causes but no way to hit any one of them hard enough to have a big effect on the violence.

[mon]

If we're gonna over simplify this, I must get this off my chest. My friend says, buy all the guns ya want. Make 'em all legal. Even automatic weapons. Just don't sell ammunition. Guns don't kill folks, bullets do.

[blue]

If we're gonna over simplify this, I must get this off my chest. My friend says, buy all the guns ya want. Make 'em all legal. Even automatic weapons. Just don't sell ammunition. Guns don't kill folks, bullets do.

We can always reload our own ammo. It's easily done.

[phesina]

People say enforce the laws we already have.

Just what are some of the laws already on the books, and why aren't they being enforced?

[Lady's Human]

People say enforce the laws we already have.

Just what are some of the laws already on the books, and why aren't they being enforced?

The shooter in Binghamton a few years back had a pistol permit. He got the permit because the local chief didn't want to deal with a discrimination suit. One of the references the shooter used basically told the police that they wouldn't want the person to have firearms. That is supposed to be an immediate disqualifier. It was ignored.

Fund NICS. Many records aren't getting into the database because there's no funding for a complete implementation.

As much as I hate the Lautenberg act, if you're going to have it on the books, enforce it. Every soldier has to undergo a complete legal check for suitability to carry firearms. Because of funding, many civilians slip through the cracks (If you have a domestic violence conviction of any kind or a restraining order, you're not supposed to have access to firearms)

Eliminate the doublespeak. Even if the Federal Government passes a NICS check including mental health, Massachusetts, for one, has laws on the books barring ANY mental health records screenings. The state injunction against it is far stronger than the federal laws, yet Massachusetts has one of the strongest AWB in the country in place.

There are over 22,000 laws on the books governing firearms between federal and state legislation, including restrictions against those with mental illness acquiring weapons. There is, however, no mandated mental health records check. There are laws barring those who have committed felonies and some misdemeanors from acquiring firearms, but the records check system is underfunded at the Federal level and not funded at all in some states (looking at you, Missouri). Before passing more laws, rationalize and enforce the ones we've got.

[RICHARD]

White House Recipe for Skeet.

Serves 4

Take four skeet - if you go skeet shooting you must follow a few simple steps.

Boil two gallons of water and place the skeet in for approximately 60 seconds, this will allow you to
take the feathers off the birds.

Gut the birds and remove the head and feet - you can keep them for stock.

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Take a pair of kitchen shears and cut the breastbone, then lay flat.

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Take half a cup of soy sauce, 1/2 teaspoon of ginger, 1/2 teaspoon of salt and pepper, Mix thoroughly.

Place the skeet in a plastic bag and pour the marinade in.

Place into the fridge for 2-3 hours.

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To cook your skeet, you can bake or grill. When temperature - taken from the thigh - reaches 170 degrees the skeet are ready.