Gun control discussion

[Lady's Human]

AR-15s are highly accurate and are used for hunting coyotes and other animals. They are also not limited to the .223 caliber listed in the article, but are available in 9mm carbine versions which would be ideal for home defense, as well as other calibers.

Would the writer ban the firearms because they look like a military weapon? He certainly seems hung up on appearances. Re-enacting the 1994 AWB would do just that, and accomplish absolutely nothing. It did nothing to restrict the sale of high capacity magazines, as there are many available on the civilian market. They aren't serial numbered items and are frequently found at flea markets, and many find their way into civilian hands accidentally after being lost in the field or on firing ranges in the military. It didn't really ban any weapons, as manufacturers retooled slightly to make the firearms meet the restrictions. Out went the plastic pistol grip stocks, in came wood stocks with thumbholes.

Are they going to ban 3-d printer files of magazines? Given the seamless nature of 3-d printing, I'd bet they'd be less prone to jamming than their stamped metal brethren in addition to being nigh impossible to ban. The only thing you'd need to purchase would be a spring, and a really industrious person could easily make even that piece.

[RICHARD]

I fear hot brass down my shirt.

[blue]

Video of Lanza's trunk was a shotgun, not an AR of any type. No AR clone was found in the school, only handguns, 4 of them.

Never let a good tragedy go to waste.

Where do mass shootings take place?

[blue]

I fear hot brass down my shirt.

Stay to my left then.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Gun Deaths vs. Car Deaths
A new Violence Policy Center (VPC) state-by-state analysis of government data comparing firearm deaths and motor vehicle deaths shows that gun deaths outpaced motor vehicle deaths in 10 states in 2009, the most recent year for which state level data is available. Nationally, there were 31,236 firearm deaths in 2009 and 36,361 motor vehicle deaths according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

Alaska: 104 gun deaths, 84 motor vehicle deaths
Arizona: 856 gun deaths, 809 motor vehicle deaths
Colorado: 583 gun deaths, 565 motor vehicle deaths
Indiana: 735 gun deaths, 715 motor vehicle deaths
Michigan: 1,095 gun deaths, 977 motor vehicle deaths
Nevada: 406 gun deaths, 255 motor vehicle deaths
Oregon: 417 gun deaths, 394 motor vehicle deaths
Utah: 260 gun deaths, 256 motor vehicle deaths
Virginia: 836 gun deaths, 827 motor vehicle deaths
Washington: 623 gun deaths, 580 motor vehicle deaths

The Study

Now...watch the red herrings that will be tossed into the discussion! Always good for a laugh...albeit a sad laugh...

[blue]

How many of those where suicides?

ETA: Funny how IL and DC arent on that list.

[Lady's Human]

Gun Deaths vs. Car Deaths
A new Violence Policy Center (VPC) state-by-state analysis of government data comparing firearm deaths and motor vehicle deaths shows that gun deaths outpaced motor vehicle deaths in 10 states in 2009, the most recent year for which state level data is available. Nationally, there were 31,236 firearm deaths in 2009 and 36,361 motor vehicle deaths according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

Alaska: 104 gun deaths, 84 motor vehicle deaths
Arizona: 856 gun deaths, 809 motor vehicle deaths
Colorado: 583 gun deaths, 565 motor vehicle deaths
Indiana: 735 gun deaths, 715 motor vehicle deaths
Michigan: 1,095 gun deaths, 977 motor vehicle deaths
Nevada: 406 gun deaths, 255 motor vehicle deaths
Oregon: 417 gun deaths, 394 motor vehicle deaths
Utah: 260 gun deaths, 256 motor vehicle deaths
Virginia: 836 gun deaths, 827 motor vehicle deaths
Washington: 623 gun deaths, 580 motor vehicle deaths

The Study

Now...watch the red herrings that will be tossed into the discussion! Always good for a laugh...albeit a sad laugh...

With no explanation of the methodology and cherry picked statistics, it's meaningless. All it is is a 4 page position paper.

[Karen]

But it does mean that in 40 states, car deaths outpaced gun deaths.

[blue]

For some reason the states with the highest gun control laws were left out of that study.

[Lady's Human]

But it does mean that in 40 states, car deaths outpaced gun deaths.

True. However, it also shows bad methodology, as most statistical studies discard the anomalies, rather than using them as political fodder.

In addition, until you look at precisely what statistics they looked at (which isn't precisely referenced in the footnotes) the stats are relatively meaningless.

The Postal Service used intentionally misleading statistics to show that closing certain processing plants saved them money. Pay a good statistician enough and they'll prove whatever you want them to.

[RICHARD]

But it does mean that in 40 states, car deaths outpaced gun deaths.

So, if someone yells "Shot Gun" before a car trip, I need to panic?

[DriftyAlison0]

My opinion on guns-its not the guns that kill people, its the people behind the gun that kills people. Sure ban the automatics and AK 47's and the other military weapons and keep normal pistols (shotguns for hunters) alone. One why punish the ones who uses the guns right for the idiots who don't and the bad guys will go to the black market and still have guns.

[RICHARD]

Stay to my left then.

No thanks, I'll stay on the RIGHT side. The 'left' is way too safe for me?

--------------------------

Let's talk about Eric Holder and 'fast and furious', then Rahm Emanuel and the "Chi-Town 500"


http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...go-gun-ban.htm

[Edwina's Secretary]

AR-15s are highly accurate and are used for hunting coyotes

So it takes a weapon that shoots what - 20 - 30 bullets a minute - to take out a coyote???? Really?

I guess that is why the call him Wiley. The coyote that is. Certainly not the "marksman!"

And yes Karen - there may be 40 states where gun deaths don't yet outnumber auto deaths. Just give the NRA time.

When you consider the number of people exposed to autos vs the number of people exposed to guns...well...it is embarrassing, isn't it?

Of course there is this...once again...the irrefutable fact - a vehicle that kills is not being used as it is designed. A gun that kills is being used as it is designed.

[Lady's Human]

So it takes a weapon that shoots what - 20 - 30 bullets a minute - to take out a coyote???? Really?

I guess that is why the call him Wiley. The coyote that is. Certainly not the "marksman!"

No, it doesn't take that many rounds to "take out" a 'yote. However, the .223 is an excellent round for coyote hunting, as it has an extremely flat trajectory, and the AR-15 is an extremely accurate platform. Combine the two and you have an excellent tool for removing problem varmints from long range, and you don't normally get close to a coyote.

And yes Karen - there may be 40 states where gun deaths don't yet outnumber auto deaths. Just give the NRA time.

When you consider the number of people exposed to autos vs the number of people exposed to guns...well...it is embarrassing, isn't it?

Given that there are 270 million firearms in the US, and the number of automobiles is a fraction of that, which one is statistically more likely to do you harm over the tool's lifetime?

Besides, with concealed carry permits, how do you KNOW how many firearms you are within range of on any given day?

Of course there is this...once again...the irrefutable fact - a vehicle that kills is not being used as it is designed. A gun that kills is being used as it is designed.

It's not irrefutable. A HMMWV (hummer, for those in the civilian world) is designed for the military, hence, by extension, designed to kill. The same goes for the ever popular Jeeps. A firearm is a tool designed to propel a projectile at high speed. What one does with that projectile is entirely the decision of the person pulling the trigger. There are rounds with absolutely scary velocities that are absolutely useless outside of the target range. It's a tool. Period.