Do we dare discuss the Supreme Court decision re: Healthcare

[RICHARD]

I just saw a bit of an interview between Nancy Pelosi and David Gregory (NBC).

"It's not a tax, it's a penalty. It a penalty for the people who are freeriders...


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IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY FOR HCI, YOU ARE NOT CHOOSING NOT TO PAY FOR IT.

YOU CANNOT AFFORD IT.

And even if they have 'Low Cost' programs that you still CAN'T afford, what happens then?

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I always thought that politicians were effing stupid.

Kinda sad to know I am right.

[Edwina's Secretary]

There are reasons people do not buy medical insurance. Some do not buy it because they figure they are young and do not need it. There are people who prefer to spend there money elsewhere knowing they can always go to the emergency room if it really matters. Some cannot afford what it costs today (well over $1,000 a month for family coverage) but would love to be able to buy it if it was less expensive.

I would like to see universal healthcare coverage as most of the western world has. But that would be too much of a shock to the system for this country. Something is better than nothing.

The purpose of the act - and the link Jessika posted http://www.reddit.com/tb/vbkfm is a really good summary - it to make healthcare affordable.

This

IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY FOR HCI, YOU ARE NOT CHOOSING NOT TO PAY FOR IT.

YOU CANNOT AFFORD IT.

is simply not true. There are people who choose not to pay for it.

The other day an employee asked me if he could add his wife to his insurance because she is pregnant. I told him that is like buying car insurance after you have an accident.

And this

And even if they have 'Low Cost' programs that you still CAN'T afford, what happens then?

is the whole point. Making healthcare affordable. Tort reform will not make these people any more able to afford insurance.

But, as some continue to post without reading what the ACA really says:

No, there would not be coverage for illegal immigrants

It will - over time - get rid of pre-existing condition exclusions

It has provisions designed to decrease the cost of medicines

It will - over time - eliminate life time maximums

It will - over time - require insurance to cover preventative care

Beginning in 2014 if you can afford it you will be required to either have insurance coverage or pay a tax or mandate or whatever you want to call it. Of about $600 a year. If you choose not to have insurance. Again if you can afford it. There are provisions in the plan for those who cannot afford it.

There are no "death panels" any where in the bill.

Now which one of those things takes away your freedom? Which one of those things is so oppressive? Which one of those things represents the government intruding in the doctor/patient relationship? (That is still left to the insurance companies and their profit motives!)

[momoffuzzyfaces]

No, there would not be coverage for illegal immigrants


There are no "death panels" any where in the bill.

Well, since lots of illegals already get free care, it would make sense that they don't mention covering it.
Who wants to turn someone who is sick away just because they broke a law by being here illegaly? No one!

As for 'death panels', please don't give them any ideas!!! I look for them to sneak them in when no one is looking.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Well, since lots of illegals already get free care, it would make sense that they don't mention covering it.
Who wants to turn someone who is sick away just because they broke a law by being here illegaly? No one!

As for 'death panels', please don't give them any ideas!!! I look for them to sneak them in when no one is looking.

The only one talking about death panels is Sarah Palin - and thankfully she is yesterday's news.

When do you think "no one is looking"?

Who is "them"?

What is it in the bill - not the stuff that people make up - but what is really in the bill - that you don't like?

[RICHARD]

Make mine a sugar free Kool-Aid.

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Affordable HCI?

When you do not have the money to pay for insurance, it's not that you do not choose to buy it, It's you cannot afford it.

I guess it's too hard to imagine that when you never have had to worry about it. I heard the same crap on all the sunday news shows and how my life is going to improve because some arseholes voted to penalize people for being poor.


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Universal healthcare is the stupidest thing on the planet.

Case in point?

Go buy some accessory/aftermarket part for your car that says "UNIVERSAL FIT" or "FITS ALL MODELS" on it.

You are going to get a part that might fit your car.

It's more or less a sub standard fit, finish, and material.

I'd love to trust my health or loved ones to a 'close enough' style of medicine.


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As with anything on the planet, I'll believe it when I see that it's great for everyone.

This bill is Horse Crap and to think that the prices of meds and implants will go down is pretty entertaining.

Please,

Cross you legs and don't let anyone blow smoke up your heinie. It's not good for you and you may not be covered by your insurance company.

[Karen]

Richard, did you read the page Jessika posted?

[RICHARD]

Richard, did you read the page Jessika posted?

No, I didn't.

I tend to be a pretty cynical person and of the mind that i'll see things and then I believe.

And even then?

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Went back to read the page and still have my doubts.

One thing that amused me was the idea that the bigger market a manufacturer has of a market the more they will be taxed in order to drive the costs down?

So, If you are ABC corp and you have 75% of a market, let's say ear widgets, and now you must pay a larger tax what is to keep you from spinning off or breaking up your company into divisions?

Are you going to pay more taxes to keep up you margins and what about the stockholders? Where does their profits go and what does that do to the prices of the ear widgets?

Do you scale back production and lay off more people in order to lower your percentage of the market?

I don't do any of the biz shows/networks and could not run a company to save my life but, I do see problems with that part of the program. It's common sense to me.

If you threaten to tax a company more because they control a larger market share that only means trouble.

That is the point where CEOs get creative with the bottom line and the phrase 'creative marketing' comes into play.

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Why, I feel less irritated already!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

The thing that really bothers me is that they (the government) have made a royal mess of every program they control: Social Security, a mess; Medicare, a mess: Medicade, a mess; Welfare, a mess; food stamps, a mess, etc. Why on earth should we believe this new program will be any different when they can't even make those work?

Or maybe they plan on combining all those messes into this new Health care program for one gigantic ginormous mess?

[Lady's Human]

The thing that really bothers me is that they (the government) have made a royal mess of every program they control: Social Security, a mess; Medicare, a mess: Medicade, a mess; Welfare, a mess; food stamps, a mess, etc. Why on earth should we believe this new program will be any different when they can't even make those work?

Or maybe they plan on combining all those messes into this new Health care program for one gigantic ginormous mess?

And the current system is wonderful how?

It can't stay as is, billing is a labyrinthine mess. SOMETHING has to change. I don't see this as a cure all, but it may start a serious discussion, rather than a discussion with the various sides trying to score points for the PR Grist mill.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The thing that really bothers me is that they (the government) have made a royal mess of every program they control: Social Security, a mess; Medicare, a mess: Medicade, a mess; Welfare, a mess; food stamps, a mess, etc. Why on earth should we believe this new program will be any different when they can't even make those work?

I get really tired of the old canard - of course there are things that the government controls that are done well! I could start with the interstate highway system - or the space program (remember landing on the moon) or the fact that I can drink milk and not wonder if it is water with chalk in it - or buy a prescription and not wonder if the drug will kill me. You can thank the Food and Drug Administration. Remember all those banks that have failed? Without the FDIC all the people who had money in those banks would have been wiped out - as they were back in the 1920's and 1930s. How safe is your drinking water - how clean is the air you breath?

As if the current system - insurance companies - is doing a great job. Insurance companies exist to make profits - and they do that by NOT paying claims. They are extremely intrusive in the doctor-patient relationship - telling doctors how they must treat patients (and with profits the driver!)

And what makes me laugh is people who admit they don't know what they are talking about and talk about it anyway.

The hospitals here in California have come out very strongly in favor of the act. We...well those of us who either have insurance or pay taxes that is...are already paying for the uninsured.