Do we dare discuss the Supreme Court decision re: Healthcare

[sasvermont]

I suppose we could discuss this like adults.

I, for one, am happy to have access to health insurance and happy for anyone benefiting from coverage. I can't imagine not wanting coverage.

I know some folks are livid about having to have coverage or be taxed if they don't. Lots of loopholes, as I understand it. Aren't there always?

Anyone? Or is this just too upsetting.

[Karen]

I do not know enough of the matter to generalize, although that does not seem to stop most TV commentators. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, particularly as, in Massachusetts, we have had the individual mandate for a while. I do not think it is either the end of civilization as we know it, or the answer to cure all ills, which is why I guess I'll never be a network anchor!

[pomtzu]

I for one, don't understand how this land of the free, can force people to purchase healthcare, or be taxed. I suppose that there are many pros and cons to this plan, but I really can't comment, since I haven't read the proposal. A couple of pros tho: you cannot be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition, and that there is no limit on lifetime benefits.
My insurance is in place, I don't have to worry about getting any different coverage, since I have Medicare and a supplemental plan, tho I don't know at this point what changes will be made to Medicare and if it will effect my supplemental plan as well.

[kaycountrygal]

I am dubious re Obamacare. If I had my "druthers", I'd rather not have it... but I won't go bonkers about Supreme Court's ruling. I also do not know how it will affect my Medicare and supplemental. I think -not positive - that those of us on Medicare will eventually have less coverage; I might be wrong.

[snakemama]

Since my husband needs coverage BADLY and we can't get it due to a pre-existing condition...I'm happy. We've called over 40 places trying to get help so that my hubby can get back on his meds...which run around $1300/month without insurance...and no luck.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

One thing that concerns me is where do the illegals fit into all of this? All Americans will have to have insurance or pay a fine, so will we be still covering the illegals health care too? I am not against immagration as long as it's legal. We can't trust the US government to even control that. How can we trust them with our health coverage?

Frankly, it frighens me.

[sasvermont]

I have not a clue about illegal immigrants and how their health coverage claims get handled. Do they pay taxes? How can they if they don't have a ss#? or do they.

I know a few people who don't have insurance coverage because they just don't want any, believe it or not. They will have to pay a penalty for no coverage I just don't know how much that will be.

Having been a healthy younger person and now a "falling apart older person" I don't know what I would do without insurance. Hospital stays and proceedures are so expensive that without the coverage, I would be in the poorhouse.

Vermont has just begun the process of establishing an insurance exchange and has, as I mentioned in an ealier post, has great coverage for folks who don't make much money, income wise. They really look after the people living here. They also have Medicaid etc., but in general, Vermont government treats it's residents nicely. I think I will stay here.

I get it that people don't like to be TOLD what to do. Heck, you need to have car insurance to drive a car. You need a license to drive, too. Surprisingly enough, many people don't have either and get caught from time to time. Shame on them. I don't see why people would get worked into a lather about having to have health insurance coverage.

We shall see how this all falls out. November will be interesting.

[Freedom]

I am not against immagration as long as it's legal.

Glad you said that. My Mum was born and raised in London during WW II. She lived here 42 years, always had a green card. For that generation of English, it was hard for them to even consider changing citizenship. Many did, but not as many as may have had they not lived through the Blitz. It always surprises me how many people don't distinguish; and since we grew up with it (my brother and I), it was normal for us.

Anyway, having pre existing condition and having stopped work (well, the company disappeared in a take over and we were all let go) about 14 years back, I've been on a self pay plan for years now. I don't dare let it lapse, I'd be in a huge mess. Now paying over $700 PER MONTH, I am in favor of a change that covers pre existing conditions. This doesn't mean I think Obamacare is perfect; but then, no law is. There are so many aspects to nation wide coverage.

[snakemama]

This doesn't mean I think Obamacare is perfect; but then, no law is. There are so many aspects to nation wide coverage.

This. I keep thinking today, when I see the conflict popping up all over....don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

[RICHARD]

Again,

Hospitals can charge what they want for services rendered.

Medicine and implant companies can do the same

Insurance companies - no one talks about malpractice insurance - are out to make a buck or 10 billion.

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"O" care is a joke.

The government needs to step in and

Limit what charges can be billed to a patient.

Again, I worked for a HMO for 30 years and if the prices that were charged when I stopped working are even 5% higher
some people are making a crapload of money.

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If you go for a hospital stay - heaven forbid - ask for an itemized bill and check to see what item/treatment you received and what you did not get.

Find out what a Diagnosis Related Group is and what the limits are for a stay for a specific illness.

To make billing easier, the hospital no longer went thru a chart to see what a patient used - either in treatments or supplies.

They use a computer program that compiles what is used in an operation or stay.

Every time a patient stays they use a template for what is used during an average stay. If you use more of the facilities/supplies, they enter that into a database.

So, that raises the average costing per stay, per patient.

That number increases the cost according to the template.

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That average stay cost is used to universally charge the insurance or bill the government.

So, if you go in for a headache and stay overnight?

They pull up the costs for that diagnosis and charge at whatever the template says.

It does not matter if you get one aspirin and are sent home or five aspirins, a CAT scan and a blood tests for that stay.

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Another billing rule is in a DRG is that a physician can only treat you for so many days for that illness and be reimbursed. Otherwise the hospital eats the extra costs.

The physician has to sign an attestation when the stay is complete - that means that he states the illness and treatment days are correct. Otherwise he can be taken to court and fined.

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I won't go into the cost of implants - pacemakers, sutures, ortho kits and stuff like that.


Healthcare costs can be reigned in by controling the cost of inventing, formulating and manufacturing med supplies.

Also, the costs involved in bring and defending against malpractice suits are crippling the people that medicine should be saving.

[Edwina's Secretary]

This. I keep thinking today, when I see the conflict popping up all over....don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

Well said! I am proud to think this nation will begin movement toward joining the rest of the western world in seeing healthcare as something you should not have to be rich to have.

[Karen]

Immigration needs to be reformed. That is a separate issue than health care, although of course they overlap.

Right now, anyone who shows up in an Emergency Room with no insurance gets treated anyway, as it should be, but the costs get swallowed by the rest of us with insurance. It doesn't matter WHY the person has no insurance - whether they are here illegally, too poor to get insurance, unemployed and coverage ran out, just didn't buy insurance - it's all lumped into one category. If the law works the way it should, everyone here legally should have some sot of insurance coverage, as there will be subsidies for extremely low income people, etc. But having insurance will hopefully mean they will go to the doctor for preventative care, and not end up in the Emergency Room at all. A minor asthma attack, for example, is far cheaper to handle with medication at home when necessary, than waiting until it has escalated into a life-threatening condition requiring immediate treatment and days of hospitalization. That's one example I can speak to from personal experience, as a lifelong asthmatic.

Don't ask me about any other medical conditions, that's the one I know.

[sasvermont]

I don't think hospitals should be for profit. They pay their presidents bundles of money, just like the other big corporations, sports players, tv personalities, and I could go on. How much money can these people possibly be worth. How much harder and better do they work than a teacher working with Autisic children, for example. It is all about money. Money, money, money. Hospitals are all about money now, not just about saving and treating people.

This whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. I need to go to bed. I am getting goofy.

Money, money, money.

[RICHARD]

So, Riddle me this?

Basically, if a family of four that takes in, let's say 20K a year (THIS IS THEORETICAL) cannot afford MI, because they have to....

Pay rent,
Eat,
Cloth themselves
Pay for transportation and whatever basic living expenses they incur, MUST FACE A PENALTY LEVIED BY THE IRS and probably will have their tax returns docked or be subject to whatever kind of collection method the gov't. may choose to enforce?

Nice.

The people that Obama puts to work processing and going about setting up the system to catch the scofflaws who either won't or cannot afford MI will lower the unemployment rate and create a whole new office/system to complicate an already over-porked federal system.

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By putting people into a hole - penalizing them for not being able to afford insurance -will make them less likely to be able to afford insurance in the future.

How the eff does that make sense?

Oh, wait.

If the prez says so, it must be good for everybody.

[sasvermont]

It's my undersranding that if your income is low, you will get a subsidy (much like I do right now in VT) from either your state of Federal government so that you can have insurance at a low, low cost. Does that make sense Richard. Low income = low payment.

I think a lot is going to be what your state decides to do and how much the Federal government will fund each state. Very confusing.