Rex Murphy: Testing America’s tolerance

[lizbud]

It doesn't personally affect me either, I live in Indiana, but I also have a opinion about it.

[Lady's Human]

On a Constitutional basis it affects everyone in the United States. You know, that old, useless document written by a bunch of dead rich white guys?

Being that this is largely a constitutional issue, and we already know Wom thinks of our Constitution as an impediment to running a country the right way, his opinion is pretty much redundant.

BTW, Wom, nice mosques y'all have down there in Oz. Doing anything about them? After all, the only goal of Islam is a worldwide theocracy under the Caliphate.

http://www.visitmelbourne.com/displa...280C476A9046C/

[wombat2u2004]

"On a Constitutional basis it affects everyone in the United States. You know, that old, useless document written by a bunch of dead rich white guys?"

You mean the document that has in the last 50 years opened up a huge Pandora's box ???

"Being that this is largely a constitutional issue, and we already know Wom thinks of our Constitution as an impediment to running a country the right way, his opinion is pretty much redundant."

Why does it make my opinion redundant ???? Enough people who share my opinion could only change things for the better.
You know, you buy a McHeadache Shake from McDonalds and you get enough headaches, you don't buy the shakes anymore.

"BTW, Wom, nice mosques y'all have down there in Oz. Doing anything about them?"

Yep. There have been many Development Applications for the building of mosques within areas where public opinion against them has been high.
You see, our Consitution allows Freedom of Religion, but the public will not allow those religions to simply make fools of us by using our own existing laws against us...like your laws do.

"After all, the only goal of Islam is a worldwide theocracy under the Caliphate."

Glad to see that thought had crossed your mind. And the sooner you wake up to the fact that Islam is having a big party in your country, the sooner something may be done.

[Karen]

By whose estimation is Islam having a "big party" in our country? They are still a vastly outnumbered minority, and most are peace-loving folks.

[wombat2u2004]

and most are peace-loving folks.

Source ??? Or is that just your opinion ????

[Karen]

That is my opinion, based on Popcornbird, several other people I know both in person and online, and any women in headscarves I have ever had a chance to talk to.

Now will you answer my question to you?

[wombat2u2004]

Sure.

"By whose estimation is Islam having a "big party" in our country?"
Mine.

And a minority ???
That will change.

My sources ???
Heaps...everywhere I go I see what is happening on a lesser scale than in your country.
We have a beach in Sydney in a suburb that is mostly muslim. White women in that suburb are too frightened to go to that beach wearing bikinis, because they get spat on and called whores by muslim men.
There is another agenda here......and you can listen to all the Popcornbirds you like, it's your choice.
Me ??? Well I guess I see the light, which is further evidenced by the fact that I don't see any so called moderate Popcornbirds condemning such a blatant insult to their host country as building a mosque on a site as sacred as WTC.
Go have a read The Danger Within: Militant Islam in America http://www.danielpipes.org/77/the-da...lam-in-america

[smokey the elder]

[dons fireproof undies]

I just find the level of Islamophobia being manifested disturbing, although it appears that I am in the minority here. It's demonizing a religion/culture. It smells too much like the scrutiny given Germans during WWI, and the internment of Nisei in WWII. Near the WTC site is not the only places where mosques are being protested. None of those places were bombed by Islamist [emphasis mine] terrorists on 9/11 or any other time.

There is an unfortunate tendency in American history for there to be "undesirables", be it the newly-emancipated slaves; the Irish immigrants after the potato famine; the Chinese railway workers; the Germans in WWI; the Japanese-Americans in WWII; the Hispanics and Middle Eastern immigrants (legal or otherwise) now.

IMO, I see a ton of moral relativism in this whole debate. "They won't let Christians build a church in Mecca". Does that make a lesser wrong any less wrong? (Did that even make sense?)

[Miss Z]

[dons fireproof undies]

I just find the level of Islamophobia being manifested disturbing, although it appears that I am in the minority here. It's demonizing a religion/culture. It smells too much like the scrutiny given Germans during WWI, and the internment of Nisei in WWII. Near the WTC site is not the only places where mosques are being protested. None of those places were bombed by Islamist [emphasis mine] terrorists on 9/11 or any other time.

IMO, I see a ton of moral relativism in this whole debate. "They won't let Christians build a church in Mecca". Does that make a lesser wrong any less wrong? (Did that even make sense?)

Totally agreed and thanks for putting that so eloquently.

What I find disturbing is the phrase I've seen a few times, 'between Islam and America', implying them as separate. Surely by that very first amendment afore mentioned, that should not be the case.

It's a classic case of a lack of education in many respects - I often find that people who seem to know so much about the cruelties and injustices of Islam don't know any people of that faith who might be able to give them a new perspective.

And as for a source about Muslims being a peace-loving people, go to an Arabic country, and see how many greet you with 'salam'.

[Puckstop31]

Totally agreed and thanks for putting that so eloquently.

What I find disturbing is the phrase I've seen a few times, 'between Islam and America', implying them as separate. Surely by that very first amendment afore mentioned, that should not be the case.

It's a classic case of a lack of education in many respects - I often find that people who seem to know so much about the cruelties and injustices of Islam don't know any people of that faith who might be able to give them a new perspective.

And as for a source about Muslims being a peace-loving people, go to an Arabic country, and see how many greet you with 'salam'.

I agree 100% on the right to worship as one chooses. I also could care less about them building a mosque where they want to. Its just a building. The church is the people, not the building. What I care about is how the people of a certain church behave.

But on a similar line of thought... Where I see the trouble happening is when people of a certain religious group want a set of laws that are different from the country they choose to live in. I am not 100% up to speed on what is going on in the UK with this right now... But I do recall seeing something about a judge allowing 'certain aspects' of sharia law to apply to muslim groups in the UK. Any comment on that Zara?

Not picking on you or anything, I just know you have a soild brain up there and you live in the UK.

[Miss Z]

But on a similar line of thought... Where I see the trouble happening is when people of a certain religious group want a set of laws that are different from the country they choose to live in. I am not 100% up to speed on what is going on in the UK with this right now... But I do recall seeing something about a judge allowing 'certain aspects' of sharia law to apply to muslim groups in the UK. Any comment on that Zara?

Not picking on you or anything, I just know you have a soild brain up there and you live in the UK.

I'll be honest and say I wasn't aware of that case and so I looked it up. I must say I'm quite surprised at Lord Phil.

Personally, I don't think much of what was suggested would ever get off the ground, apparently we do have a Sharia Council (who knew? ) but I've never heard of their involvement in anything. We have Equal Rights Opportunities groups that extend to ridiculous levels over here and by gawd would they kick up a stink.

The United Kingdom of Great Softies hate offending anyone and I can see far too many pitfalls for the PC Brigade to pursue that one. Particularly in our current political climate, we have more pressing matters.

My high school was slap-bang in the middle of an Islamic community and after being fortunate enough to speak with the MP and former Justice Secretary Jack Straw, I discovered a few interesting things about how 'strict' Islamic communities have been in that area in former years. Going back 20, 30 years perhaps, the community was far more Westernised, now? Communities are rekindling some of the traditional Islamic ways of living. It has A LOT to do with Western presence in the Middle East, but that's probably a story best saved for another time since it'll cause no end of trouble here.

I agree that a country's laws imposed by those we chose to elect should be abided by everyone within its shores regardless of their personal upbringings and background and opinions. I don't believe that the problem of unruly ethnics over here is half as bad as some of our propaganda makes out. There'll always be another hate preacher no matter how many times we chuck the last one out, but as for 'Islamic communities being slowly reeled in', as I once read in one paper? Piffle.

As is often the case in many aspects of life, there's always some nutjob who ruins it for everyone.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL,

Go to a border town here in the U.S. and all the people are really friendly and tell you "Vaya Con Dios". It's the guys that are running the drugs,kidnapping and executing people that are the heathens, Pay no attention to them and you will be o.k.

It's not the natives, it's being naive.


My rose colored glasses are really cheap, I'd hate to invest a ton of money in a pair and lose them while being bound and gagged by some Narcoterrorist while I am on vacation in THEIR backyard.

Eh, OK.

Fortunately, then, naïveté has allowed me get out and to ask the people, whom the news in my country spoonfeeds me negativity about, what their take on it all is, rather than relying on the belief that I know everything about everybody cos-I-saws-it-ons-the-tv.

I've been called a crazy white girl once, I grant you, but as yet, I've not been 'terrorised'.

In a nutshell, that is my point on education, which I posted in another thread.

[RICHARD]

New York is a long way from El Lay so I really should not have a problem with it, but I was thinking about the situation and would like to 'localize' it with a scenario that may be little similar to what is going on with this topic.

Yes, It's a scenario, but hang with the topic? It's morbid curiosity that makes me ask and I just want to see if it makes anyone think differently?

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Remember, this is a "what if?"

Who are you? You are married with two kids of your own, you SO has brought her two into the family - they are two boys and two girls from 5-14.

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The first problem?

During a serious family meeting you are told that one of your relatives has molested another family member. Because of the time lapse, there is no way to make this person responsible for what they did. When the family member is confronted with the story, they begin to yell, scream and accuse you of lying and not taking any responsibility for their supposed actions. The healing begins but everyone has circled the wagons for whichever side you are on, and there is definite animosity between the two.

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You live in a neighborhood for years and know ALL the neighbors.

An empty lot across the street is being developed into a complex with six apartments in it. When you run into the neighbor who owns the land you
chat and find out that he has sold it to a group that is doing the building.


You meet the NEW owner and he/they tell you that four of the units will be used as 'monthly rentals' to people who are a little down on their luck.

The building is finished and you begin to suspect the rentals are being used by men and women who are fresh out of prison/jail as temp shelters until they get on their feet. Your gut is correct and later find out that there are some child molesters in the mix in addition to the parolees.

What do you do?

Are you satisfied that they have paid their dues to society and now have the right to live where they want?

Are you comfortable with your children playing in the street or your front yard?

Are you trusting that your local PD can and will be there to protect you and your family should you need them?

Are you mad that the landlord lied to you about renting these units monthly to people that may fall back into their life of crime?

Are you comfortable with the laws that will allow CMs to live in the same area with your family?

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I know it's a stretch between a scenario and the mosque/community center in NY, I do understand the laws/rules and the right to worship in the U.S.

I just want to see if that scenario would make anyone on the board see why the New Yorkers might be a little skittish, no matter how this CC/mosque presented to them.


Take a minute and talk amongst yourselves?

[RICHARD]

http://www.newser.com/story/98536/lo...ro-mosque.html

Now, If Ginger, Cinnamon, Jade, Diamond, Montana, Shiloh, Silk, Red, Chanel and Lexus say that they are o.k. with it?

[wombat2u2004]

http://www.newser.com/story/98536/lo...ro-mosque.html

Now, If Ginger, Cinnamon, Jade, Diamond, Montana, Shiloh, Silk, Red, Chanel and Lexus say that they are o.k. with it?

Are they still taking dollar notes tucked into their garters ??? Or has it risen to 20 dollar notes now ????