Should Teachers Pay Be Linked To Student Grades

[IRescue452]

Am I the only one who thinks the problem lies not in school, but in society as a whole? I learned to read when I was 3. Well before I started school. We didn't have cable, we didn't have playstation (though we did have atari), we didn't have cell phones or facebook or email to keep up on, we didn't go to the mall every other day. Both of my parents actually had time to sit down and read with us or do learning things. Now I have little sisters and they don't read or do math as well. They've got a single mother who has no time and they have a tv for a babysitter. They spend hours on the computer daily. This is just how society is now. We've got no time to devote to teaching children. No, machines do the work now. They don't have to learn anything. Its just that point in our culture's evolution where we can stop teaching math because computers do it for us, we can stop teaching reading because we have e-books that fit in our pockets and can read for us, we can stop teaching history and science and everything else because we have internet. Kids know this. They may not consciously choose this way of thinking, but they grew up in a time when they could refer to the internet if they needed an answer. The attitude of "why should I sit through school and learn the old-fashioned way" is built right in.

[Lady's Human]

Also, if I may share a big pet peeve of mine, it's that a lot of people think they are experts on education who have no training or background in it. Being a student and the study of pedagogy are very different things, and many teachers today are highly qualified to teach. Yes, parents know their kids best, but a good teacher will communicate with parents in order to help their students more. Teaching is based on science, not anecdotes or feelings or how we were taught as kids.

I beg to differ. What, praytell is the educational equivalent of Ohm's law?

Calling it a science doesn't make it one.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I beg to differ. What, praytell is the educational equivalent of Ohm's law?

Calling it a science doesn't make it one.

Have you never heard of the social sciences? Still perfectly possible to use the scientific method and gather empirical data.

[Lady's Human]

I've heard of them, however, I've yet to see an equation to quantify them.

Calling something a science doesn't make it one. Some people call astrology a science.

[lizbud]

Have you never heard of the social sciences? Still perfectly possible to use the scientific method and gather empirical data.

True. Just read a interesting article on kids, teachers & genetics.
How they are all part of the equation involved in the learning process.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36717876...and_parenting/

[Cataholic]

Am I the only one who thinks the problem lies not in school, but in society as a whole? I learned to read when I was 3. Well before I started school. We didn't have cable, we didn't have playstation (though we did have atari), we didn't have cell phones or facebook or email to keep up on, we didn't go to the mall every other day. Both of my parents actually had time to sit down and read with us or do learning things. Now I have little sisters and they don't read or do math as well. They've got a single mother who has no time and they have a tv for a babysitter. They spend hours on the computer daily. This is just how society is now. We've got no time to devote to teaching children. No, machines do the work now. They don't have to learn anything. Its just that point in our culture's evolution where we can stop teaching math because computers do it for us, we can stop teaching reading because we have e-books that fit in our pockets and can read for us, we can stop teaching history and science and everything else because we have internet. Kids know this. They may not consciously choose this way of thinking, but they grew up in a time when they could refer to the internet if they needed an answer. The attitude of "why should I sit through school and learn the old-fashioned way" is built right in.

I have always heard that the early readers, or talkers, or writers of their name, all pretty much balance out by the 5th grade. Like early walkers..not exactly a fortelling of great physical prowess. I am curious, what did you go on to do after that? AND- I don't mean that in any insulting way..just curious. Did you then go on to skip grades? Graduate from high school at 15? Graduate college at 18, etc.?

I learned to read at a more "normal" time...and to this day, read, read and read- 4 books a week is not unusul for me. I love to read. I graduated college and law school at 'normal' times, enjoyed school ok in general, didn't do overly well, etc. But, I read like a fool.

That is where my curiosity comes from. What did such an early start in reading do for you? Are you still an avid reader? I can remember, as a kid, literally- looking around me for cereal boxes to read at breakfast. I read the wall of stuff at J's school last night, while waiting for a parent's meeting to begin. I. Must. Read.
But, I was not an early reader by any means.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I have always heard that the early readers, or talkers, or writers of their name, all pretty much balance out by the 5th grade. Like early walkers..not exactly a fortelling of great physical prowess. I am curious, what did you go on to do after that? AND- I don't mean that in any insulting way..just curious. Did you then go on to skip grades? Graduate from high school at 15? Graduate college at 18, etc.?

I learned to read at a more "normal" time...and to this day, read, read and read- 4 books a week is not unusul for me. I love to read. I graduated college and law school at 'normal' times, enjoyed school ok in general, didn't do overly well, etc. But, I read like a fool.

That is where my curiosity comes from. What did such an early start in reading do for you? Are you still an avid reader? I can remember, as a kid, literally- looking around me for cereal boxes to read at breakfast. I read the wall of stuff at J's school last night, while waiting for a parent's meeting to begin. I. Must. Read.
But, I was not an early reader by any means.

I don't think being an early reader give students an advantage per se, but research shows that being exposed to books, text, and lots of adult conversation gives students a big advantage in school. Kids who have a rich environment before school learn things like phonemic awareness and how print looks before they begin K, and tend to have larger vocabularies (in many cases this is true throughout academic careers).

I agree with IRescue452 that too many parents just turn on the TV instead of helping their kids. Schools cannot (and should not) do everything. Parents actually need to do their job, too. I have a relative whose kid has reading comprehension problems that has been brought up repeatedly in conferences, and the parents do absolutely nothing to help him despite the fact the teacher has given them numerous tips, help, etc. They were also offered FREE tutoring twice a week after school and didn't take it because they didn't want to have to pick him up from school (1 mile away) instead of having the bus take him. That is just lazy and ignorant IMO. This is actually not that uncommon either in my experience. At what point are parents responsible for their own child's grades?

[pomtzu]

Ok - this is just a little off topic, but how does an adult get back into the reading mode?

I was always an avid reader of just about anything. Loved reading in school, and it followed thru to my adult life. Even tho I was married, maintaining a household, working full time, and raising two kids, I always found time to read. If I found a book that really "grabbed me", it was nothing for me to read it in 1 or 2 days, and I'm not talking short stories either. Back in the 60's and 70's when book clubs were popular, I would get several books at a time, and have them read in no time flat. As the kids got older (teens), I found myself reading less and less, and now that I'm retired, I read hardly at all. My concentration really sucks, and I have 2 books sitting on my desk right now that I really want to read, but just can't get into it. I started one about 6 months ago, read 2 chapters, and haven't picked it up again - and it's a good book - not one that puts me to sleep. I'm going to have to start it again from the beginning when I do get to it!

So do we get reading burnout???? It would seem that I have it. Any suggestions on how to cure it??

[Cataholic]

^^. Hmmmm.....assuming you do like to read, I might suggest you turn off the TV at night (LOL). That is my main distraction. It lets my mind 'go' without having to focus. I might also start with magazines- those that require a lot less time than a full scale book.

But, really, all that could be way off base. Not reading is just not possible with me!

[pomtzu]

Not reading is just not possible with me!

And that's the way I used to be....

I had thought about setting aside an hour (to start) each day just to read, but I don't want to feel like I have to read when that hour comes around. That would make it seem like a chore if I really didn't want to do it. The last time I really did any serious reading, was on a long and boring train trip. Unfortunately that's an expensive way to make time to read!

Maybe I should subscribe to Reader's Digest. I've always enjoyed that and they have lots of good articles. I also like National Geographic. Not too keen on other magazines tho.

[Puckstop31]

Ok - this is just a little off topic, but how does an adult get back into the reading mode?

<snip>

So do we get reading burnout???? It would seem that I have it. Any suggestions on how to cure it??

Start easy. Short stuff.... Magazines and the like. Then, when you read something you like, read other stuff by the author. Or, if the article lists reference material, read that. OR, if you like reading commentary like I do, read the other sides stuff.

From there, IMO, it develops into a thirst for more.

[Daisy and Delilah]

Ellie, I just got a book that I thought I would like and I read it. Liked it so much I got another one. Now, I have to have my reading fix every day. Good luck!!