Should Teachers Pay Be Linked To Student Grades

[Alysser]

I also think it's an awful idea to blame teachers, while there have been many in my school years that are bad and some were very recent - some of them were amazing people. They worked hard, even with the worst of kids. Some of those kids just didn't pass because they simply didn't care - not the teachers fault. They very often worked hard to try and teach them with after-school help, etc. to no avail. While, I've met bad teachers I still don't think it justified. But I will say also, they're some god-awful teachers out there. Some of their ways of teaching were not working, they knew it and did not care. They're just some that plainly hate kids, and some that have attitude problems and alot of things that just annoyed me. While, I've never suffered to badly from a teacher, I know some kids who did.

[king2005]

Ummmm why are the teachers at blame? Its most likely the parents faults. If your not going to help your kid with school or force them, then it YOUR OWN fault your kid is failing.

Parents need to learn to take control of their childrens actions & educations. My dad was on my case all the time when I was young. If I didn't do my homework I didn't get dinner until it was done. You only pull that stunt a few times & learn quickly to just do the work.

How many parents do NOTHING educational wise for their kids during the summer months? My folks would quiz me on random things to keep my brain working. I didn't do any homework during the summer months, but I did random math, spelling, & answered random questions my dad asked me.

I'm not the smartest person out there, but I'm FAR from being stupid like a lot of people I know & have met. Its terribly sad.

My biggest issue is math. My teachers were terrible with me. I was the one singled out all the time & was reminded that I was stupid. G-thanks. It got so bad that I cannot do basic math infront of people, I freeze up & panic. My friends know this so when we play board games they would just say the total on the dice for everyone, so I wouldn't feel stupid (which I'm not). Now when I go grocery shopping I can keep the growing/changing totals in my head just fine.

This is another issue I have with teachers, just because someone can't spell all the crazy long & weird scientific words doesn't mean they should fail when they know the darn answer & can apply the knowledge. I was one of the BEST students in grade 12 advanced Bio, & OAC Bio, but because I couldn't spell many of the crazy words I nearly failed the classes.. How the heck is that fair/right? I was TEACHING other students the stuff as I KNOW Bio like the back of my hand (well knew, lost some of it now as its been so many yrs).

opps, ranted.. I'll stop..

Teachers are a problem, but Parents are an even bigger issue.

[Miss Z]

Its most likely the parents faults. If your not going to help your kid with school or force them, then it YOUR OWN fault your kid is failing.

That could well be true, however I think a lot of it also depends on the classroom atmosphere. It's pretty hard for one student actually wanting to get on with work whilst everyone else is trying to make the teacher's life as difficult as possible. It's certainly true of the state system here that the bright kids get lost amongst the crowd.

Maybe we should steer our education system away from getting every kid into college. Not every student is going to go to higher education so why waste money trying to get every snotty kid into college?

You took the words right out of my mouth as far as the university system over here goes. We're a little country with a lot of people, and we simply don't have the places available to meet the government's quotas of having so many ethnic minority/dyslexic/autistic/deprived background students before academic potential and course suitability is even assessed.

I can't say I agree with the topic of the post, as I think teachers in failing schools deal with some horrendous situations that they really shouldn't have to deal with. Knives, physical violence, and just the other day I was reading about a teacher who was put through a trial on rape allegations (she was in fact stalked by three of her students, who then, with the whiff of compensation, decided to blame her when she gave them the cold shoulder.) However, I also don't think it's much worse than the millions of pounds poured into these schools to give them fancy new 'academy' names, and facilities that are usually graffiti'ed or burned down in due course. I don't know how to save the state system, but I don't believe in either of these methods.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

As a teacher, I have to say NO, I don't agree with this legislation. I don't really think people in "normal" jobs have a grasp on just how hard teachers work or how many hours they put in, or how much money they spend out of their own pockets to teach their students as best they can.

When I was teaching, I thought about my students a lot out of the classroom, and ways I could help them, not to mention all the school nights/conferences/meetings/grading/preparing lessons, etc. It is a LOT of work, and even if you try to reach every student there are parents who will completely blow you off, kids that come to school hungry, and many, many expectations you need to meet. As a teacher you can do everything within your power to help your students and it may work some or even most of the time. However, it is not within a teacher's control to make sure parents are doing their jobs, too. You would not believe the amount of parents who ignore correspondence and refuse to help their kids or even make sure they do their homework (or even make sure they have a lunch/and or lunch money!).

I believe if teachers get paid based on student performance, the only schools that will have enough teachers are ones in wealthy areas. The kids who really need the help will again fall short.

[Lady's Human]

Money spent per capita DOES NOT EQUAL better education.

[cassiesmom]

There is an Oprah show where she sent a crew to two schools. Harper High School in Chicago's Englewood neighborhood, and Neuqua Valley High School in Naperville (west suburb of Chicago). I was stunned and saddened by the conditions at Harper. The desks looked like they were from the '60s; they wanted to have a band program but didn't have nearly enough instruments; kids who qualified for AP courses had to travel to another school; the pool was empty and the benches in the boys' weight room were patched together with duct tape. Neuqua is a pretty typical suburban high school, loads of accelerated and AP classes, gym, pool, band and choir, sports, arts. Oprah then had some kids from each school visit the other school. The kids from Neuqua were shocked at what they saw and wanted to know how students could do well with what they had. The kids from Harper - well, you could have knocked them over with a feather.

A couple of years ago, one of the Chicago aldermen tried to register a group of Chicago public high school students up at New Trier, which is one of the best, if not the best, high schools in the state.

What I want to know is - colleges want a diverse student body, but how can a student from Harper do as well as someone from Neuqua or New Trier? Are colleges holding students from the best schools to higher admissions standards? How can two dissimilar schools prepare students to the same ability?

How do high schools assess whether a student is college material or not, and what do they do for those who are not?

[Cataholic]

As a teacher, I have to say NO, I don't agree with this legislation. I don't really think people in "normal" jobs have a grasp on just how hard teachers work or how many hours they put in, or how much money they spend out of their own pockets to teach their students as best they can.

As an attorney, I can say the same thing. I can easily think of $30,000 in uncollected attorney fees- I did the work, and I did not get paid. I have a blackberry, internet access at home to stay in touch with people on Friday- the day I don't work, and don't get paid (LOL), I have certain clothes I buy for work, I call people and re-remind them of court dates, I meet clients at their homes or some other place to make it easier on them. I could go on and on. MOST professionals work more than the 'face time' reflected in the office. I had a client call me at 10 pm one night! And, no, it was not an ER. I didn't sign up for a 9-5 job, and I knew that going in. Saturday appointments cause the client says, "I work during the week, so I need to see you after work or on the weekend". Uh, hello? Guess what? I work, too! During the day, and not on the weekends (as a rule).

I don't think teachers hold the market on how hard they work.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

As an attorney, I can say the same thing. I can easily think of $30,000 in uncollected attorney fees- I did the work, and I did not get paid. I have a blackberry, internet access at home to stay in touch with people on Friday- the day I don't work, and don't get paid (LOL), I have certain clothes I buy for work, I call people and re-remind them of court dates, I meet clients at their homes or some other place to make it easier on them. I could go on and on. MOST professionals work more than the 'face time' reflected in the office. I had a client call me at 10 pm one night! And, no, it was not an ER. I didn't sign up for a 9-5 job, and I knew that going in. Saturday appointments cause the client says, "I work during the week, so I need to see you after work or on the weekend". Uh, hello? Guess what? I work, too! During the day, and not on the weekends (as a rule).

I don't think teachers hold the market on how hard they work.

Well, it is true that there are other jobs who work beyond the standard 9-5, but the average salary is much higher for an attorney than for a teacher. And, you still get paid even if you lose a court case don't you? (After all, you cannot control a person's guilt or innocence, etc.) I'm not sure why teachers should be penalized for something that is in many ways out of their control.

[Lady's Human]

Let's see.....things outside of my control:

equipment operators

machine programming/design

quality of the parts

the mail being run through the machines.

Extra time spent outside of work: about 2 years training (so far) in Oklahoma away from home, in addition to the training and experience that got me the job in the first place, and occasionally fielding calls to help other techs when things really get screwed up.

I still get paid if I can't fix a machine or a network system, but if it happens too many times I'll have issues.

We all deal with issues in our jobs which are outside of our direct control. No one profession has a corner on the work done behind the scenes.

[Cataholic]

Well, it is true that there are other jobs who work beyond the standard 9-5, but the average salary is much higher for an attorney than for a teacher. And, you still get paid even if you lose a court case don't you? (After all, you cannot control a person's guilt or innocence, etc.) I'm not sure why teachers should be penalized for something that is in many ways out of their control.

Right now, I have chosen to work a 4 day work week. I will go back to work 'full time' once J goes to school full time. So, these comments are based on a presumption that I am working a 5 day work week. I work anywhere between 50 and 60 hours a week. Of that time, I would bet about 80% is 'billable' time. For billable time, I 'should' get paid- whether I win or lose a court case (and, the majority of what I do is court room work, so, nice guess there! (or I told you that already, LOL)). I have no magical way of getting people to pay, unless I get my fee up front. Asking someone - and often they are just like you and I, regular working people, to fund a minimum of $5000- $7500 today for the work I will do over the next 6 months to a year is really difficult. They won't pay. I can usually get $1500 or so upfront, and I blow through that pretty quickly. So, I don't get 100% of my time- ever. Of the 80% that is billable, I bet I have a collection issue on 30%?? When you put that final figure into a 50-60 hour work week, I really don't make that much, LOL. I don't know many attorneys that really make that much. Sure, some are out there, and the big firms in the big cities really DO make money. They also bill between 1800-2000 hours a year. Bill, not work hours. Big difference.

I guess my 'thing' is- most of us work and get paid on a performance basis. Salespeople....they don't control the merchandise they sell, the general public to whom they are to sell, the market, the store location, etc. Doctors....they do a crappy job and they lose patients. Like lawyers. Like restaurants, like sales people, like everyone- seemingly, but, teachers.

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