Figure Skating

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Ice dancing ... Belbin and Agosto are in 4th after the original dance. Davis and White are in second!

How sad for the young woman from Canada. Hopefully she can go on with her performances.

(MT4FF, I heard Andy Rooney describe figure skating on 60 Minutes tonight as a mixture of gymnastics and ballet ... I thought that was pretty insightful!)

I wasn't surprised that Belbin and Agosto didn't pull up any. I thought their outfits were a little too much and too white! Davis & White are marvelous! You could see Meryl's body positions throughout the program a lot better with her costume than you could Tanith's and some of the other ladies.

I got a kick out of reliving the falls that occurred last year during the OD! I'd forgotten. The worst one was that of Canada's Marie-France Dubrueil and Patrice Lauzon. I had really grown to like them and was hoping they'd win the Gold. I never, ever liked that red head of the Italian team and although I felt bad for her partner I was glad they fell. She needed a reality check, she had an ego and attitude like Plushenko's!

I'm sure Joannie's Mom would want her to go ahead and compete. I hope Joannie can skate well in honor and memory of her Mom and it would be wonderful if somehow she garnered the Gold.

Edited to add: Mickey Rooney desribed figure skating pretty darned well!

[smokey the elder]

Interesting that someone brought up Surya Bonaly. She and Plushenko seem cut from the same cloth. My SO used to call her Surly Bonaly!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Interesting that someone brought up Surya Bonaly. She and Plushenko seem cut from the same cloth. My SO used to call her Surly Bonaly!

Surya Bonaly may march to a different drummer, but I don't see her ego being as huge as Plushenko's. I've seen her live several times, she always had a big smile for the crowd...Plushenko always had leers and "look at me" kind of looks. He never seemed to be there for the fans, just for himself.

[Catty1]

Here's what former Canadian figure skating champ Elvis Stojko had to say about the men's skate at this Olympiad. He makes it clear this is not about the skaters at all - it is about the system. Read on.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/van...yhoo&type=lgns

The night they killed figure skating
Elvis Stojko

By Elvis Stojko, Yahoo! Sports Feb 19, 2:00 am EST

VANCOUVER, British Columbia – Sorry, Evan Lysacek.

You’re a great skater and all.

But that wasn’t Olympic champion material.

In Thursday night’s men’s free skate, Lysacek skated slow and his jumps weren’t close to the technical ability of defending Olympic champion Evgeni Plushenko.

How can you be Olympic champion when you don’t even try the quad? If you’re going to take the quad out, why not take out another triple axel and just have more of the other stuff so the International Skating Union can make it more into an “art” recital.

Plushenko had a great performance. His footwork was great and maybe his spins weren’t quite as good as Lysacek’s, but it wasn’t that big of a difference. He also had a quad toe triple toe that wasn’t even attempted by anyone else. He did both triple axels, so all the jumps were there.

But the judges’ scoring was ridiculous.

Because of it, the sport took a step backward. Brian Boitano did the same thing, technically, in 1988. There are junior skaters who can skate that same program.

And the judges’ scoring probably killed figure skating because kids now are going to see this and say, “Oh, I don’t need a quad. I can just do great footwork for presentation marks and do a couple of nice spins and make it to Olympic champion.” With that type of scoring, you don’t have to risk it. You can play it safe and win gold.

In what other sports do you have to hold back in order to win?

The International Skating Union has taken the risk out of figure skating and it makes me sick.

If Plushenko had made some mistakes, then sure, maybe Lysacek deserves gold. But when you take the risk out of skaters’ programs, it doesn’t compute to me.

And it’s not a personal thing. I like Evan. But when you compare performances and have an outcome like this, the sport is going backward. And it hurts me to say it because I love this sport. But the judges made a mockery of it by giving Lysacek the gold.

I don’t want to rain on anybody’s parade because it’s not the skaters’ fault. It’s the system. And the figure skating community wants to control who wins and who loses. And what it does is it makes the component score more valid than the jumps so it can control whatever it wants. And that’s exactly what happened Thursday night at Pacific Coliseum.

How can the sport be put back on the right path? I have no idea. I haven’t even thought about it. It’s not up to me. Because people at the ISU obviously seem to know what they’re doing. Well, they think they know what they’re doing.

For me, the outcome on Thursday night was disappointing.

A few more thoughts on the men’s free skate:

• I thought Daisuke Takahashi was awesome. He tried the quad and he had the guts to go for it, and he should’ve been ahead of Lysacek in that aspect.

• Johnny Weir was great. He should’ve been higher than sixth – above Patrick Chan, who was fifth. Weir outskated Chan. He might’ve skated a little bit slow but he went out there and did his stuff. I feel bad for him.

• People say I’m hammering certain skaters. I’m not. It’s the system I don’t like and if you say I am biased … I already said I am not a fan of Weir’s skating, but he skated well tonight and deserved to be ahead of Chan.

In addition, Takahiko Kozuka – my favorite skater – did not get the points he deserved. He skated great, had awesome spins, the best edges in the competition, was very close with the quad and did a ton of triples.

Figure skating gets no respect because of outcomes like this. More feathers, head-flinging and so-called step sequences done at walking speed – that’s what the system wants.

I am going to watch hockey, where athletes are allowed to push the envelope. A real sport.

Elvis Stojko is Yahoo! Sports' Olympic figure skating analyst.

[caseysmom]

I disagree with him, its not a jumping contest its 4 minutes.

[Catty1]

The point Stojko was making is that, unlike other Olympic athletes who do their utmost and give it all, the scoring system in figure skating no longer encourages skaters to do that. Stojko landed a few quads in his career...if technical difficulty counts for much less - or nothing - from now on, it's a bit of a slam to the pioneers. To quote from the previous article:

...kids now are going to see this and say, “Oh, I don’t need a quad. I can just do great footwork for presentation marks and do a couple of nice spins and make it to Olympic champion.” With that type of scoring, you don’t have to risk it. You can play it safe and win gold.

http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic..._145912Fz.html

Singles

In singles skating, skaters must complete both a short program (maximum 2 minutes 50 seconds) of required steps, jumps, spins and combinations, and a longer free skating program (4 minutes for ladies, 4 minutes 30 seconds for men), both set to music. The free skate — worth two-thirds of a skater’s final score — allows the athletes to demonstrate their creativity, innovative moves and technical difficulty.

More here:

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-ska...wsid=3472.html

Judging

A panel of nine judges scores the programs but a random, secret draw by computer 45 minutes prior to the start of each segment of competition determines which seven of those judges' marks will form the result for that segment. The marks of all judges are still displayed and judges do not know if their marks are contributing to the score.

Scoring - ISU Judging System

The ISU Judging System (also known as Code of Points) was introduced in response to the judging scandal in the pairs event at the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic Winter Games. Replacing the 6.0 scoring system, it was tested on the ISU Grand Prix in 2003-04 before being implemented in all ISU competitions in 2004-05. It was first used at the Olympic Winter Games in 2006.

Under the 6.0 system, judges scored the skaters in relation to each other. The marks were a reflection of the overall impression of a program. Under the ISU Judging System, each individual element is assigned a value. Skaters try to accrue as many points as possible while staying within the boundaries of the required elements.

There are two sets of marks: the Technical Elements Score (TES) and the Program Components Score (PCS). The TES is based on the difficulty of the elements in a program and the quality with which those elements are performed. The PCS grades the overall presentation and performance. The TES and the PCS are added together to determine the Total Segment Score (TSS) for each skater/couple in each program. The final results are determined by adding together the TSS from each program for each skater/couple.

• Technical Elements Score (TES)

The Technical Specialist identifies the elements performed and their Levels of Difficulty (where applicable). All elements are assigned a base value in the Scale of Values (SOV). Base values for jumps and throw jumps are based on the type of jump and the number of rotations. A triple Axel (8.2) is worth more points than the less difficult double Axel (3.5). A triple Lutz (6.0) is worth more than the less difficult triple Salchow (4.5). Non-jump elements such as spins, step sequences, lifts, death spirals and twizzles are assigned values based on the Level of Difficulty, which can range from Level 1 (the easiest) to Level 4 (the most difficult). The technical specialist will give the element a level based on the number of features it includes. A spin can be made more difficult by changing edge or position, showing a difficult variation of a position or entering the spin in a difficult way. The amount of variety in the steps and turns in step sequences will affect the Level.

Once an element is identified, the members of the judging panel score the quality of execution of each element, using seven Grades of Execution (GOE) ranging from -3 to +3. The GOE either adds to or deducts from the base value of the element. Each grade corresponds to a specific + or - numerical value which is indicated in the SOV. In determining the GOE, judges consider the quality of positions, speed, flow, entrances and exits of the elements. Judges first evaluate the positive features of an element and then reduce the score if there are any errors committed. The negative GOE to be applied is specified by the type of error on the element.

The judging panel's GOE for each element is determined by calculating the trimmed means of the grades of execution awarded by the judges chosen by the random draw. The highest and lowest values of the seven scoring judges are deleted and an average is made of the remaining values. This average becomes the final GOE for each element. The panel's GOE is rounded to two decimal places. The graded scores for all the individual elements are added together to determine the TES for the program.

[caseysmom]

Evan had also done quad's in his career but chose not to since he had a previous foot injury, I still disagree with that one opinion.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I certainly am not an expert and do not know what the answer is, but I do know what I like to see. And I know everyone has their own opinion, thoughts, and ideas. But....
Give me a SKATE that is enjoyable to watch because it is done well.
Not a jump fest of jumps that are done in an ugly manner, or worse, fallen on.

It is figure SKATING not figure JUMPING!

Those who feel so strongly about jumping need to organize themselves and start a new discipline...figure jumping.

Plushenko's foot work stinks. It's a bunch of flailing around, positions that are not hit with any importance. At least that is my take on them, and my opinion of them.

Stojko was a jumping machine and refused to admit that there was a "balletic" side of skating, but I always enjoyed seeing him live as he always looked into the audience and made you feel like he was there for you. I realise he's saying this is not a bash on any particular skaters, but I still think he's wrong on saying there needs to be quads, or a skater needs to have a quad in his arsenal.

You have to take into consideration the toll these jumps take on the skaters' bodies. They start doing all these jumps before they are done growing. I mean, for crying out loud, where is Tara Lipinski now? Part of the reason she isn't skating much anymore is because at the ripe old age of what, 17?, she had to have hip surgeries!

[caseysmom]

Maybe they can give Plushenko a gold medal for whining

[Catty1]

Well, I love watching figure skating...but it will be a bit blander from now on.

M24FF - There are so many amateur and pro athletes whose careers are over while they are in their 30s - I am thinking of hockey players here. There are not very many years in many sports careers.

I wonder if coaches push their younger charges too hard at times? No doubt there is room for abuse there.

This may sound OT - but Lyuba Weilitsch was a stunning and promising opera singer decades ago - and had her career cut short by teachers and managers who pushed her voice too far, too soon.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

In the old scoring system, the artistic score broke a tie if there was one. That is how Oksana Baiul won gold over Nancy Kerrigan.

Let's face it, part of figure skating HAS been artistry and presentation!

No matter what sport, each athlete can only push themselves to do what they can do.

I'd give Plushenko two Gold medals if it'd shut him up and send him away forever....for the whining that is, not for his skate!

[K9karen]

Maybe they can give Plushenko a gold medal for whining

And just being plain ICKY?