Torn ACL *3/6/10 8wk Check Up*

[Seravieve]

Well Eli and Treo were playing a few weeks back and somehow Eli managed to damage his CL... We're taking him in Tuesday so the vet can sedate him, Xray, and determine if it's a complete tear or just partially torn.

I've been reading some online about it and the articles are half and half... some say surgery works, some say decreased activity/pain meds work just as well.. He's already on Deramax for his spine issues, so that helps some I guess. Everyone has said surgery or no surgery, arthritis will still show up in the knee, so its a toss up I guess. He's 3 years old, ~70 pounds, not overweight by any means... he doesnt quite fit the 'general' category of dogs who get this injury, so it's kind of annoying that it happened. Especially since my other half just lost her job this past week.. the company is most-likely closing up shop in two weeks (1100 employees... ).

Was wondering if anyone's had to go through this with their dog, What you opted for, etc?

[chocolatepuppy]

My Lacey had both knees done when she was around 4 and 5. She is now 9 and a 1/2 and still walking. She's in the 70# weight range. No serious arthritis at this point. She may be slow getting up after lying a while but she is getting older.
She had the rubber band type surgery, not as expensive as the TPLO(?) surgery, which btw, scares me. Both of her ligaments were totaly torn, in half, so surgery was the only option.
I hope Eli's is not as bad and maybe rest will help it heal.

[kokopup]

Koko had to have both CCL's repaired at age one year. She is a big dog but not over weight at 100 lb. Both of her knees gave out because of Hip dysplasia. They say when one Knee goes, when the hips are involved, both will go. The local ortho Vet wanted to do TPLO so I took her to Auburn Univ because they do the Fishing line type and TPLO. Since her surgery her Knees are as good as new. When a low pressure comes in, that brings rain, she usually has that pained look because of arthritis in her hips. They did not recommend surgery for her hips so we give her Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and Msm as a daily supplement. I give her aspirin or Remidal when she is in pain. I do not advise having TPLO there are to many risk.

[Seravieve]

Thanks for both of your replies. It's good to hear what others have done, even though the detail are a little different.

Eli is already on a daily Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplement as well as Deramax. And he also has arthritic degeneration in his spine, near his hips, and up near his shoulders, which causes him to arch his back excessively and has lead to muscle spasms (which I initially thought were seizures! Was so scary the first time I saw it.). Our vet thinks the damage to his spine was from some sort of trauma... So I guess his previous owners did a number on him in the few months they had him (~3 months). The Deramax helps him relax his back some and be more mobile, and has put an end to the muscle spasms (fingers crossed) as he hasn't had one in at least 6 months.

So this whole CCL thing has just added more stress to his already weakened back end... rather aggravating. We're trying to keep him as calm and relaxed as possible. Hoping to prevent any further damage to either knee. It just tough since Treo and him LOVE to play race and chase and he can't jump and run like he should be able to.

[K9karen]

Cody had both his knees done, 2 months apart, when he was around 5.

He sailed through everything like a trooper. I had to keep him quiet (yeah, a yellow lab. golden retreiver) for 6 weeks with each surgery. Luckily, the weather was nice each time, so I moved into the downstairs family room with him since there's a door to the yard. First day was Rimydal, I think, afterwards, Maalox coated aspirin. As long as he had company, he was fine, well behaved. He lost 30 needed pounds. No kitchen table to beg at, and no stoopid hoomans to accommodate the big brown eyes.

Afterwards, he was back to normal, no setbacks. I took it harder than him.

Good luck with Eli. Big kisses for him.

[Freedom]

My friend had her miniature poodle in Agility, and he did this. So it doesn't matter if he is overweight or not, it is how they land, and can happen to any of them, in theory.

Teddy was 2 years at the time. She went with the vet's recommendation for the surgery. She said keeping such a young active pup calm during the recovery was a bit of a challenge, but he healed up fine. He is 3 years old now. He is no longer in Agility, and both of them miss that.

Wait for the xrays, listen to what the vet says and recommends. Take notes so you can think about it at home, if need be.

Best wishes!

[Kona & Oreo's mom]

I'm so sorry to hear that Eli hurt his knee. I hope that you'll get some answers from the tests on Tuesday, and I hope that he feels better soon!

Oreo ruptured her CL on her 10th birthday. Our vet gave us the choice beween traditional extracapsular repair surgery and TPLO surgery. Not having surgery wasn't an option for us because of her size--65 lbs.--and because of the complete tear. We chose to do the traditional surgery because it didn't involve bone changes. An orthopedic surgeon came to our regular vet's office, which I think was great because he had lots of experience with the procedures. I wrote about Oreo's surgery and recovery here and here.

It's been a little over a year now, and Oreo is walking and running great! The vet said Oreo has great range of motion for any 11-year-old, which she attributes to Oreo being in athletic shape before the injury. Oreo has very little arthritis and pain only very occasionally when she overdoes it. I'm thrilled with the result: she has truly exceeded my expectations.

Best wishes to Eli and you.

[Seravieve]

Eli's back from the Vet's... and not with good news... He completely tore his Cruciate ligament. The Vet recommended TPLO, but he cannot do it himself. It'd have to be with a specialist or with this traveling surgeon, who'd come into their office. He said $2k for the TPLO with a specialist, maybe somewhat cheaper with the traveling guy. He said there's no damage to the knee bones, which is good. And he was surprised how well Eli gets around with it completely torn. Attributed that to the Deramax, which eliminates the inflammation.

Koko, why do you say there are too many risks with TPLO?

I tried to do some research on CCL damage, most people said the outcomes of regular surgery vs TPLO were pretty equal, but for some reason the Vet doesnt think so. He said we'd get much better results with the TPLO, than the regular surgery, which he could do for ~$500-600.

We're kind of at a loss... J just lost her job last week to 'downsizing'... so coming up with an extra $2k is a stretch right now. $600 wouldn't be as bad, but when he acted like the results would be so poor... Its a hard decision.

It's also hard because this isn't our normal vet, he's just the one in the office who'd be able to do the surgery. Our normal vet isn't able to do so I guess, so she had us see him instead. So trusting him... is kind of hard too. Although, I know she trusts him, enough to share an office with him (and has for many years).

On a good note, his hips look excellent (always worry since he has so many bone issues...) and he was a very good patient.

[boomersooner]

I'm so sorry about Eli. Our cockapoo tore hers when I was in college, then almost two years to the day tore the other one. Our vet did it. Never was a mention of a specialist. Of course, this was back in the early 80's. She lived to be almost 16 and never had any problems whatsoever. I hope everything goes well with Eli whatever you decide to do.

[Seravieve]

Thanks Boomer. =)

Looks like we'll be getting a second opinion next Saturday (Jan 2nd). J called another vet today and actually was able to talk to the doctor directly. He spent quite a while explaining the in's and out's of ligament damage to her. He explained SO much more than our vet. I love our regular Vet, but the guy we saw is always less than impressive. So the new vet she talked to still thinks that its possible that its not completely torn, even though that's what the first Vet said. He said since Eli is willing to occasionally walk on it, run on it and even tip toes, that its a possibility. He would also be able to do the regular ligament surgery, TPLO or TTA. He said TTA is a newer surgery, with a much quicker healing time (1 month) and a more natural outcome/movement, for approx the same price. So we'll see. I guess we'll be looking into the Care Credit program.. so that'd make it easier for us to afford it.

[boomersooner]

If he is able to put weight on it and walk, then I would guess it isn't completely torn, either. Kacie, our dog, couldn't or wouldn't put any weight at all on hers, and she was a small dog. Her leg was completely in the air until it was repaired.

[Seravieve]

Well We met with another vet yesterday, who was way way way more informative that the first. He did several tests on Eli's leg and says that it is partially torn, but very close to being completely torn. And after some more Xrays... it was determined that he's not a candidate for TTA, as the slope of his bone is too high, so TPLO it is. This vet didnt want to do the fishing line surgery on him either, so I figure there's reason not to when two vet's say no. We were really hoping for TTA, as they return to normalcy so much quicker than with TPLO, but of well. Nothing we can do about that.

So he goes in on Thurday for the surgery... We'll be dropping him off the night before and wont get to pick him up till Friday. Going to be a sad day and a half without him here.

[chocolatepuppy]

I'll keep Eli in my prayers that things go smoothly. It's so hard to leave them at the vets. My Lacey had surgery three times, I know, only two back legs Keeping them quiet is the hardest. For me, counting how many days down, how many to go helped.

[kokopup]

Seravieve I'm sorry I did not see your post asking about why TPLO was risky. I researched both tplo and the old tried and proven fishing line approach and the fishing line had the least risk. With TPLO they are cutting bone and pinning it back together. If there are complications to the pin splice the only thing to do for correction is amputation. I had the Vetarinary School at Auburn Univ. do Koko's since they train the Vet's that do the Surgeries. One of my best friends is a Equine vet and he advised me to go with the old procedure since it was successful for years before TPLO and TTA came along.

I had the same feedback from my local Vet and the traveling ortho Vet advising TPLO saying the fishing line would not work. My friend who had been involved with the outcomes of both procedures adviced me to go with the old tried and proven. There is no reason why it will not work. Is there a Vet school near you. If so you might give them a call. I had to drive 70 mile and leave Koko overnight but it was well worth the distance.

It has been three years since her surguries and she runs like a dear. She had both kNEES DONE
6 WEEKS APART.

[chocolatepuppy]

koko, I don't like the TPLO either. Too scary for me. My local vet actually did the surgeries. I called it rubberband, but am sure it was fishline, like you're saying.