Global warming

[kokopup]

Puckstop31 quote
I HAVE.

Is the climate changing? Yes. Is it mainly because of human activity? NO.

So, the daming nature of the recent discoveries of the PURPOSELY faulty pro-man made warming evidence does not move you?

And see... It IS being made a political issue. "Oil Company Lobbyist..."

Why don't you complain about Microsoft? KRAFT? They make a bigger profit margin than the oil companies.

Like it or not... Abundant and cheap energy is why we can live the way we do. Want to live in the 17th century? I can.... Did you ever stop to wonder why a gallon of gas costs LESS than a gallon of Lipton Iced Tea?

"Oil Company Lobbyist..." Please....

It is hard to believe that anyone can deny that man is not having a major role in creating Global warming. You can call it global trashing if you would like to. Man in concert with the Sun is wreaking havoc on this planet. You don't have to be a IPCC scientist to see the evidence, it is everywhere. I can not believe any recent discoveries brought forth by either side because both sides have been guilty of playing with the numbers to satisfy their agenda. It has been going on since the 70's when the Fed came up with emission standards. All Detroit did was stroke all their engines to improve volumetric efficiency but they were now polluting more than ever but on paper it looked better.

If there has been some big conspiracy to make money off of global warming as Blue contends then I guess there was an “OJ conspiracy” too.

Political issue? It has always been a political issue.

Why not complain about Kraft or MS? I haven't seen either polluting our planet. I am not against business making a good profit , I'm opposed to them making it at the expense of our planet. I realize the enormous price we all pay to have cheap everything. There is a cost to our environment when we get cheap gas or cheap electricity. I know that to correct the problem of trashing our planet we ALL have to pay a price, and I am on board with any move that will do that. I know that any action we take today may take even centuries to have an effect. That is no excuse for not doing anything. It seems the US is the only hold out toward make meaningful changes.

The Bush administration acknowledged early on that warming was a real problem but chose to take an adaptive approach rather than any proactive steps that would have cost to big business. It is easier and cheaper to stomp out the fires than to prevent them.

I am one who feels most of Washington's ills could be corrected by making all lobbying a crime. I retired from GE the company with more lobbyist than anyone. They were there looking out for GE and their interest. It is a well documented fact that during the Bush era he did have lobbyist writing bills for him so why would you doubt that oil company lobbyist had any influence on global warming propaganda, be it discrediting scientific data or any other tactic that can be conceived.

I have posted very little on this thread and it seems that all of the positions have been stated and restated and I have yet to see anyone change sides. It would seem that the original question of this thread has been addressed, let it die.

[Puckstop31]

Kokopup... I hear ya.

As I see it, the big focus right now is CO2 emissions are the big evil in the eyes of governments.

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/146138


Why? Why when there are so many other things, things that are MUCH more damaging to the environment?

[kokopup]

I am still a believer in global warming. Whether co2 is the cause I am not in a position to say for sure. I do Know that our green house gases, which co2 is one of, are out of control. All of the gases carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons and sulfur hexafluoride are now at an unprecedented levels.

I can't put to much stock in all the 100 rebuttals presented by the link you gave me since the European foundation has it'd on agenda. Any unified approval of ANY Proposal by the EC/EU will go against their agenda to reform the EC/EU into a community of free-trading, sovereign states.

The increase in co2 emissions can be blamed on the almost 7 billion inhabitant of our planet since we are the largest single source, we need to make the changes that will help balance this known increase. Clear cutting of forest is destroying just one of the co2 equilizers, and there are many more that man controls. If every one would only breath when their face starter turning blue, this would help also.

Whether they blame our current world conditions on co2 or methane is of little importance. The facts remain we are polluting our planet and MAN is the cause, so we have got to be the solution. If we make our planet unlivable by man, then the problem will work itself out in a million or so years while the cockroaches have free run.

Solving our current crisis is going to cost every one, since the problems have been ignored to long it may be very costly.

[Puckstop31]

I appreciate your candor. Your willingness to say it how you see it.

One way or the other, the only way to save ourselves is for there to be less of ourselves? Is that what you are saying? I ask this not out of spite... I am genuinely curious.

If less consumption is the way to saving ourselves... OK. But I grew up on a farm. I know it takes a LOT of fossil fuel and other rather nasty things to pull 150-190 bushells of corn/acre.

What happens when a excessive cost of energy makes food impossibly expensive for a large part of the world? Is this the cost you speak of?

Fear and hunger have been the weapons of despots since the dawn of man... I hope we are better than that. We did put a man on the moon after all.

[kokopup]

I do believe that we all will have to make sacrifices if we are to emerge from this crisis. I'm not advocating going back to horse and buggy or tilling our crops by mule and plow, but there are ways to improve how our resources are being used. If you want to drive a gas hog , ok, we can have a gas guzzeler tax but lower the mpg that qualifies for gas guzzler. With the bailout that our government gave the US auto industry you would think they would change their tactics, but it is just business as usual so we are damned to repeat. Unfortunately the average American just doesn't get it. If they can afford to drive a big car it's their right. Right?

We did put men on the moon , and i can say I was among those that made it possible. I am a believer that given the right incentives our men of science can find better ways of utilizing our resources, and finding sources that are today not known.

I guarantee you if we were faced with fossil fuel being depleted in 10 years there would be a break through in alternative energy before that happened.

When it comes to having enough food to feed the world because of the cost of producing enough, nature has always had a remedy for such eventualities. Rather than say "survival of the fittest" you can say survival will depend on your ability to adapt. Today we have thousands of people dieing of starvation all over the world purely because they are unable to adapt through no fault of their own. We have people dieing because of the despot or Warlord and we are helpless to assist. If new methods and energy are not found man is going to out grow this planet. Soon! We are destined to repeat history.

[blue]

I do believe that we all will have to make sacrifices if we are to emerge from this crisis. I'm not advocating going back to horse and buggy or tilling our crops by mule and plow, but there are ways to improve how our resources are being used.

Something we all can agree on.

If you want to drive a gas hog , ok, we can have a gas guzzeler tax but lower the mpg that qualifies for gas guzzler. With the bailout that our government gave the US auto industry you would think they would change their tactics, but it is just business as usual so we are damned to repeat. Unfortunately the average American just doesn't get it. If they can afford to drive a big car it's their right. Right?

My 12mph gas guzzler is paid for. I cannot now or in the near future afford to buy outright or even afford payments on an econo-box that can get me around when the weather turns bad around here. I do wish I still had my Samurai for when the winter roads are good and for during the summer, I just cant afford to buy another Sammy in good reliable shape at the moment. So I should pay more in taxes because I cant afford a econ-box?

We did put men on the moon , and i can say I was among those that made it possible. I am a believer that given the right incentives our men of science can find better ways of utilizing our resources, and finding sources that are today not known.

One of my uncles worked with NASA on some project or other, when we talk over Christmas Ill ask which one. I do find it funny that a jet and rocket propulsion scientist cant work a VCR and the internet is still a mystery to him.

I guarantee you if we were faced with fossil fuel being depleted in 10 years there would be a break through in alternative energy before that happened.

Why not work towards cleaner energy with the existing resources, while simultaneously working towards alternative and renewable energies? Or is the agenda to damn all fossil fuels regardless of the costs? 1st world countries could ween themselves of fossil fuels and could afford to help 2nd and third world countries clean up their fossil fuel emissions. Or does that go against the Global Warming Agenda agenda?

When it comes to having enough food to feed the world because of the cost of producing enough, nature has always had a remedy for such eventualities. Rather than say "survival of the fittest" you can say survival will depend on your ability to adapt. Today we have thousands of people dieing of starvation all over the world purely because they are unable to adapt through no fault of their own. We have people dieing because of the despot or Warlord and we are helpless to assist. If new methods and energy are not found man is going to out grow this planet. Soon! We are destined to repeat history.

The USA has had a habit for many years, even decades, of paying farmers and Big Corps, not to grow various crops. By past estimates we should already have mass starvations do to worldwide population growth, yet that hasent happened yet. One of Obama's appointee's even suggested that forced sterilization was the answer for the "over population" problem.

Despite dire past predictions we have adapted and we continue to adapt, when government has allowed us to.

Ill start worrying about Globull Warming when Gore lives up to the example ShrubCo has set in his own residence.

[RICHARD]

Go Copenhagen PD!!!!!!

[kokopup]

By Blue
My 12mph gas guzzler is paid for. I cannot now or in the near future afford to buy outright or even afford payments on an econo-box that can get me around when the weather turns bad around here. I do wish I still had my Samurai for when the winter roads are good and for during the summer, I just cant afford to buy another Sammy in good reliable shape at the moment. So I should pay more in taxes because I cant afford a econ-box?

I can understand how you can have a vehicle that you can’t afford to replace, I have been there myself. In Europe and the US where a gas guzzler tax is imposed it is usually done when you buy the vehicle new. You can change how this guzzler is driven to obtain the most MPG, drive with an easy pedal and keep you tires well inflated

Why not work towards cleaner energy with the existing resources, while simultaneously working towards alternative and renewable energies? Or is the agenda to damn all fossil fuels regardless of the costs? 1st world countries could ween themselves of fossil fuels and could afford to help 2nd and third world countries clean up their fossil fuel emissions. Or does that go against the Global Warming Agenda agenda?

This has supposedly been the plan for sometime. The big 3 in Detroit have always been able to find holes in the plan so no progress has really come from them to speak of. The Hybrid technology has been used for some time in the commercial market but Detroit had no incentive until $4 gasoline hit. We can do better than rehashed 80’s technology. GE developed Fords system back in the 80’s but was only used in the commercial Bus market. Natural gas and now even Diesel is cleaner than a hybrid gas engines. If the Government wants to give out incentives it should be to anyone developing good alternatives. They need to develop a true Battery that doesn’t weigh a ton and will hold a charge more than 2 hours. The solution is out there we just need the right minds working on the problem rather than how to get around a definition.

The USA has had a habit for many years, even decades, of paying farmers and Big Corps, not to grow various crops. By past estimates we should already have mass starvations do to worldwide population growth, yet that hasent happened yet. One of Obama's appointee's even suggested that forced sterilization was the answer for the "over population" problem

Despite dire past predictions we have adapted and we continue to adapt, when government has allowed us to.

I have spent enough time in India, Africa, Pakistan, and America to tell you
there are people starving. The World Health Organization estimates that one-third of the world is well-fed, one-third is under-fed one-third is starving- Since you started readiing this post at least 200 people have died of starvation, and Over 4 million will die this year. Most of these starving people
can be attributed to failed crops because of severe drought. Yes we do have people starving while the US government pays farmer not to grow crops.

Ill start worrying about Globull warming when Gore lives up to the example ShrubCo has set in his in his own residence.

This is a portion of an article on Al Gores Manson.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Al Gore, who was criticized for high electric bills at his Tennessee mansion, has completed a host of improvements to make the home more energy efficient, and a building-industry group has praised the house as one of the nation's most environmentally friendly.

The former vice president has installed solar panels, a rainwater-collection system and geothermal heating. He also replaced all incandescent lights with compact fluorescent or light-emitting diode bulbs.

"Short of tearing it down and staring anew, I don't know how it could have been rated any higher," said Kim Shinn of the U.S. Green Building Council, which gave the house its second-highest rating for sustainable design.