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Thread: Politics and religion.

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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Z View Post
    This whole white text thing and photo-spying is pathetic. Grow up, man.
    Why? This is the internetz.

    Quote Originally Posted by smokey the elder View Post
    Howinthehe!! did we get off the (once polite) debating on the theme of this thread? I'm just disgusted.
    I find that tends to happen when a group of members single out 1 or 2 others to publicly mock, ridicule, and insult.

    Quote Originally Posted by lizbud View Post
    Agreed. This thread was taking on a somewhat sinister tone. Downright creepy.
    Creepy, thats putting it mildly.

    I sometimes think we have no business fighting all over the globe. America needs to look to it's own business. We have plenty of problems that we need to be working on.
    Do you think we should be helping to improve the living conditions of third world countries? Should we be helping to improve womens rights in countries where women are oppressed? When American civilian volunteers are killed for trying to improve conditions in other countries should we just shrug our shoulders?
    I have a HUGE SIG!!!!



    My Dogs. Erp the Cat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
    Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.

  2. #2
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    I wish I had a flunky to send to important events to represent me.

    I'm on vacay! don't bug me.

  3. #3
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    Is Cindy Sheehan protesting out front of Obama's vacation house?
    I have a HUGE SIG!!!!



    My Dogs. Erp the Cat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
    Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue View Post
    Why? This is the internetz.
    Because you're a grown man, aren't you? Or does ES intimidate you so much that you aren't brave enough to say what you think without the little treasure trail? Eesh.

    Anyway, on the topic of various Islamic laws...

    It's all well and good that we've managed to provide a little more freedom of speech in countries like Iraq, but I worry how far we're willing to push Westernisation on such countries, exactly what the terrorists in these nations are against. We could, or rather, we shall, end up doing more harm than good if we're not careful.

    Terrorism is difficult to oppose when the act of opposing gains support. For this reason, I myself am undecided about whether it was just, and sensible, to declare war on Iraq. We removed a dictator, granted, but our very presence stirred a hatred that is difficult to reverse. I'm not a world leader, so I have no alternatives to how it could have been handled. Yet, I do believe we have outstayed our welcome in many respects.

    Zimbabwe 07/13


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Z View Post
    Because you're a grown man, aren't you? Or does ES intimidate you so much that you aren't brave enough to say what you think without the little treasure trail? Eesh.
    So now you are playing their game?

    Its redirection, they cant honestly answer questions so they use it as an opportunity to feed their egos and deflect the question.

    Anyway, on the topic of various Islamic laws...

    It's all well and good that we've managed to provide a little more freedom of speech in countries like Iraq, but I worry how far we're willing to push Westernisation on such countries, exactly what the terrorists in these nations are against. We could, or rather, we shall, end up doing more harm than good if we're not careful.

    Terrorism is difficult to oppose when the act of opposing gains support. For this reason, I myself am undecided about whether it was just, and sensible, to declare war on Iraq. We removed a dictator, granted, but our very presence stirred a hatred that is difficult to reverse. I'm not a world leader, so I have no alternatives to how it could have been handled. Yet, I do believe we have outstayed our welcome in many respects.
    Not every believer of Islam wants to follow Sharia law. I would think that every woman that believes in equal rights would stand up and speak out against it.
    I have a HUGE SIG!!!!



    My Dogs. Erp the Cat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
    Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.

  6. #6
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    Do you trust Obama with the Internet?

    Do you trust Obama and .gov with the internet and private networks?

    Bill would give president emergency control of Internet
    by Declan McCullagh




    Internet companies and civil liberties groups were alarmed this spring when a U.S. Senate bill proposed handing the White House the power to disconnect private-sector computers from the Internet.

    They're not much happier about a revised version that aides to Sen. Jay Rockefeller, a West Virginia Democrat, have spent months drafting behind closed doors. CNET News has obtained a copy of the 55-page draft of S.773 (excerpt), which still appears to permit the president to seize temporary control of private-sector networks during a so-called cybersecurity emergency.




    The new version would allow the president to "declare a cybersecurity emergency" relating to "non-governmental" computer networks and do what's necessary to respond to the threat. Other sections of the proposal include a federal certification program for "cybersecurity professionals," and a requirement that certain computer systems and networks in the private sector be managed by people who have been awarded that license.

    "I think the redraft, while improved, remains troubling due to its vagueness," said Larry Clinton, president of the Internet Security Alliance, which counts representatives of Verizon, Verisign, Nortel, and Carnegie Mellon University on its board. "It is unclear what authority Sen. Rockefeller thinks is necessary over the private sector. Unless this is clarified, we cannot properly analyze, let alone support the bill."

    Representatives of other large Internet and telecommunications companies expressed concerns about the bill in a teleconference with Rockefeller's aides this week, but were not immediately available for interviews on Thursday.

    A spokesman for Rockefeller also declined to comment on the record Thursday, saying that many people were unavailable because of the summer recess. A Senate source familiar with the bill compared the president's power to take control of portions of the Internet to what President Bush did when grounding all aircraft on Sept. 11, 2001. The source said that one primary concern was the electrical grid, and what would happen if it were attacked from a broadband connection.

    When Rockefeller, the chairman of the Senate Commerce committee, and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) introduced the original bill in April, they claimed it was vital to protect national cybersecurity. "We must protect our critical infrastructure at all costs--from our water to our electricity, to banking, traffic lights and electronic health records," Rockefeller said.

    The Rockefeller proposal plays out against a broader concern in Washington, D.C., about the government's role in cybersecurity. In May, President Obama acknowledged that the government is "not as prepared" as it should be to respond to disruptions and announced that a new cybersecurity coordinator position would be created inside the White House staff. Three months later, that post remains empty, one top cybersecurity aide has quit, and some wags have begun to wonder why a government that receives failing marks on cybersecurity should be trusted to instruct the private sector what to do.

    Rockefeller's revised legislation seeks to reshuffle the way the federal government addresses the topic. It requires a "cybersecurity workforce plan" from every federal agency, a "dashboard" pilot project, measurements of hiring effectiveness, and the implementation of a "comprehensive national cybersecurity strategy" in six months--even though its mandatory legal review will take a year to complete.

    The privacy implications of sweeping changes implemented before the legal review is finished worry Lee Tien, a senior staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco. "As soon as you're saying that the federal government is going to be exercising this kind of power over private networks, it's going to be a really big issue," he says.

    Probably the most controversial language begins in Section 201, which permits the president to "direct the national response to the cyber threat" if necessary for "the national defense and security." The White House is supposed to engage in "periodic mapping" of private networks deemed to be critical, and those companies "shall share" requested information with the federal government. ("Cyber" is defined as anything having to do with the Internet, telecommunications, computers, or computer networks.)

    "The language has changed but it doesn't contain any real additional limits," EFF's Tien says. "It simply switches the more direct and obvious language they had originally to the more ambiguous (version)...The designation of what is a critical infrastructure system or network as far as I can tell has no specific process. There's no provision for any administrative process or review. That's where the problems seem to start. And then you have the amorphous powers that go along with it."

    Translation: If your company is deemed "critical," a new set of regulations kick in involving who you can hire, what information you must disclose, and when the government would exercise control over your computers or network.

    The Internet Security Alliance's Clinton adds that his group is "supportive of increased federal involvement to enhance cyber security, but we believe that the wrong approach, as embodied in this bill as introduced, will be counterproductive both from an national economic and national secuity perspective."

    Update at 3:14 p.m. PDT: I just talked to Jena Longo, deputy communications director for the Senate Commerce committee, on the phone. She sent me e-mail with this statement:

    The president of the United States has always had the constitutional authority, and duty, to protect the American people and direct the national response to any emergency that threatens the security and safety of the United States. The Rockefeller-Snowe Cybersecurity bill makes it clear that the president's authority includes securing our national cyber infrastructure from attack. The section of the bill that addresses this issue, applies specifically to the national response to a severe attack or natural disaster. This particular legislative language is based on longstanding statutory authorities for wartime use of communications networks. To be very clear, the Rockefeller-Snowe bill will not empower a "government shutdown or takeover of the Internet" and any suggestion otherwise is misleading and false. The purpose of this language is to clarify how the president directs the public-private response to a crisis, secure our economy and safeguard our financial networks, protect the American people, their privacy and civil liberties, and coordinate the government's response.

    Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for an on-the-record answer to these four questions that I asked her colleague on Wednesday. I'll let you know if and when I get a response.
    I have a HUGE SIG!!!!



    My Dogs. Erp the Cat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
    Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue View Post
    So now you are playing their game?
    Oh dear, how little you know me. I'm English. I'm far too serious to play games.

    And you have no excuses for your silly little shenanigans. Perhaps if you felt you were being baited, then it would have been a good idea not to bite the bait.


    Quote Originally Posted by blue
    Not every believer of Islam wants to follow Sharia law. I would think that every woman that believes in equal rights would stand up and speak out against it.
    You didn't exactly expand on what you said before, but oh well.

    In the latest Iraqi election, how many of those women, now with the liberation of exercising such equal rights, actually used them? What proportion chose to stay in their homes, lest they risked the violence they would face, the violence fueled by anger at a Western presence?

    Zimbabwe 07/13


  8. #8
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    *puts on full plate...wades in*

    There are LOADS of reprehensible things going on in the world. There are philanthropists (private citizens) doing their level best to address such issues. Doctors without Borders...Bill and Melinda Gates...the man who thought of the micro loan...Bono...many others.

    Have you ever heard the twist on an old expression, "You can lead a man* to enlightment, but you can't make him* think?"

    IMO, the most critical aspect of improvement of humans as individuals and a species is the development of a high level of enlightened self-interest. My own personal interpretation of this is not socialism, but the idea that what affects one member of the tribe, affects all members of the tribe. This does not preclude rewards for achievement, etc, as socialism as applied in today's world often does.

    One way to foster enlightened self-interest is through education. Not necessarily the pap fed to folks in public school, but a combination of book learning, "apprenticeship" in the school of hard knocks, and good mentors.

    If the only source of education is extremely polarized politics, religion, what have you, an individual cannot achieve anything approaching "enlightenment", and their "tribe" is a severely-restricted faction of narrow minded, like-minded individuals. The best of us will see more similarities than differences in peoples of the world, regardless of politics, culture or religion.

    *Masculine form used because of no gender neutral personal pronoun in the English language.

    Again, this is all my opinion, and for that at $4.00 you can get a latte at Starbucks.
    I've been finally defrosted by cassiesmom!
    "Not my circus, not my monkeys!"-Polish proverb

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey the elder View Post
    Again, this is all my opinion, and for that at $4.00 you can get a latte at Starbucks.
    How's about we pool our money and get some chow instead of coffee?

    The .99 cent menu is freaking awesome!

    http://www.wienerschnitzel.com/

  10. #10
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    Thank you for your excellent post smokey. I think "enlightened self intrest" is a perfect way to describe it. Many of the founding fathers described it that way in their writings.

    Its the darn "enlightened" part that is so hard to come by today.... Especially when society is moving more away from certain standards of common decency. We could discuss opinions as to why this is, but I reckon it would get ugly.
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

  11. #11
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    This war was IMO badly mismanaged, and only now is Obama making an effort to carry it out the way it should have been done 8 (!) years ago.
    You guys are SO lucky to have B. Obama as a president now - just think what would have happened, had Bush continued!



    "I don't know which weapons will be used in the third World war, but in the fourth, it will be sticks and stones" --- Albert Einstein.


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey the elder View Post

    *Masculine form used because of no gender neutral personal pronoun in the English language.

    Again, this is all my opinion, and for that at $4.00 you can get a latte at Starbucks.
    You forgot "dude"!

    I walked away from the machine and started to think....

    Although philanthropy is a major way to deal with the "outside world", the people who do the dirty work-develop ideas and the means to help the common man- are generally overlooked.

    I'll tout Dean Kamen again. He's behind some pretty nifty things - check out his generator/water purifier. You know what a Segway is, but how many people know about who developed a type of kidney dialysis machine and the stair climbing wheelchair?

    I was watching a program, I want to say it was Glenn Beck- and he brought a group of people to some in and voice their opinions on the bailouts and economy.

    He was taking questions from the audience when a young dude-- began to lament his not being able to find a job in his chosen field. He went on to say that he had just graduated from college and was upset that he was unemployed.

    Um, I had to choke back a laugh and then stifle my ire afterwards. Going to school and having your nose stuck in a book for four years doesn't guarantee anything except the bills for the money they borrowed for school.

    I am not trying to belittle any schooling or career development that anyone has undertaken to improve their standing in the work force-but I do have a problem with people that come into the work force with an attitude that their 'book lurnin'' makes them 'better' than me.

    Yes, there is a critical balance of books, apprenticeship, mentors and Hard Knocks...But people are so wrapped up in the Fast Track Way to Success, they forget they really have to work to earn money.

    I have worked with a few idiots with the 'Kilimanjaro School of Business and Plumbing" sheepskin on the wall-and I really wasn't impressed with their claim of having a diploma from an institute of higher learning in a frame..

    Of course, there are the exceptions to that rule-I have worked with many people who did have a diploma and were willing to work their way up the ladder. It was the folks that came into the office and stated that "my" system wasn't the best, then told me that they were taught to think out of the box and reminded me that their degree made it impossible for them to present a business model that was without fault....

    It was the disrespect that these moron show to their co-workers -that and the fact that some companies have put more emphasis on degrees, as opposed to common sense, loyalty and work ethic.

    That's another reason for the sorry state of blue collar workers in the country today. Instead of asking for or promoting a good work/climb the ladder to success ethic?

    We tell people that they should go to school, and skip the "get your fingers" dirty part of life that helps build good work habits, communication and interaction.

    --------------
    I'll buy the donuts for Smokey's coffee!

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